Neue Testversion 18.40b5

Hier diskutieren die Betatester von PhotoLine untereinander und mit den Entwicklern
User avatar
Gerhard Huber
Entwickler
Entwickler
Posts: 4000
Joined: Mon 18 Nov 2002 15:30
Location: Bad Gögging

Neue Testversion 18.40b5

Post by Gerhard Huber »

Hallo,

es gibt wieder eine neue Testversion 18.40b5.



Windows:
www.pl32.com/beta/pl1840b5.zip

Mac OS X:
www.pl32.com/beta/plx1840b5.zip


Neues:
- Beschnittebenen, Arbeitsebenenmasken: Die Qualität der Maske wird durch die Ebene bestimmt
- IPTC-Daten werten jetzt MD5-Hash aus
- PSD-Import: Lädt jetzt Verlaufsumsetzung
- Raw-Import liest jetzt auch Raws von neueren Sigma-Kameras. Allerdings ist das Ergebnis nicht schön :-(
- Pixelmodus: Wird separat pro Dokumentfenster verwaltet
- Ebenenrahmen anzeigen: Wird separat pro Dokumentfenster verwaltet
- Formlasso-Werkzeuge: Beim Umschalten des Seitenverhältnisses wird das Lasso nun auch angepasst, wenn "proportional" nicht angeschaltet ist
- Cache für gekapselte Gruppen


diverse kleinere Verbesserungen und Fehlerbehebungen



Gerhard Huber [Computerinsel GmbH]
support@pl32.de - www.pl32.de
User avatar
ellhel
Mitglied
Posts: 1337
Joined: Wed 04 Jan 2012 03:03
Location: Reiffelbach

Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b5

Post by ellhel »

Hallo,

mir ist gerade aufgefallen, das im Lupendialog (Anzeigemodus:Auswahl) nichts angezeigt wird, wenn man ein Auswahlrechteck über einer Platzhalterebene aufgezogen hat.
Oder ist das so beabsichtigt, da ja der Platzhalter nur ein Verweis auf die eigentliche Datei ist. Es läßt sich ja auch erst eine Auswahl auf der Platzhalterebene erstellen, nachdem die fixiert wurde.

liebe Grüße
Helmut
PhotoLine 21 & Betas, Win-10 Pro 64-bit, ACDSee Photo Studio Ultimate 2018, Dxo Optics Pro 9, Panasonic DMC-G6
"Der Nachteil der Intelligenz besteht darin, dass man ununterbrochen gezwungen ist, dazuzulernen."
George Bernard Shaw
Martin Huber
Entwickler
Entwickler
Posts: 3950
Joined: Tue 19 Nov 2002 15:49

Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b5

Post by Martin Huber »

ellhel wrote:mir ist gerade aufgefallen, das im Lupendialog (Anzeigemodus:Auswahl) nichts angezeigt wird, wenn man ein Auswahlrechteck über einer Platzhalterebene aufgezogen hat.
Eine Auswahl gibt es nur bei Bildebenen, und eine Platzhalterebene ist ein eigener Ebenentyp (also weder ein Bild, Vektor, Text oder Gruppe).

Martin
JulianZI
Mitglied
Posts: 733
Joined: Tue 19 Dec 2006 19:54
Location: München

Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b5

Post by JulianZI »

Die Platzhalter sind super - nun wird auch die Dateiname angegeben.
Anbei ist eine Aktion welche einen solchen Platzhalter in eine Gruppe mit Beschnitt verlegt. Optional kann man später noch einen Umriss auswählen. Durch die Verlagerung wird sichergestellt, dass bei drag&drop eines Bildes die Bereiche um den Platzhalter nicht überschrieben werden.
Vielleicht könnt Ihr die Aktion ja in die Distribution aufnehmen.

Übrigens, wäre es nicht praktisch in einem "Actions" Unterverzeichnis diverse Aktionen abzuspeichern, welche von Photoline dann im Menü unter "Bearbeiten" aufgelistet würden. Damit wären einfache Ergänzungen zum Programm möglich, ohne dass gleich programmiert werden müsste.

Die Aktionen könnten außerdem, anders als normal aus dem Aktionen Dialog, so aufgerufen werden, dass bei mehrfach Auswahl zunächst die Selektion "gemerkt" würde, dann aber immer nur eine Ebene ausgewählt, die Aktion ausgeführt und dann die nächste Ebene aktiviert würde, welche ursprünglich selektiert war um die Aktion erneut aufzurufen. Damit wäre es möglich, Aktion auf mehrere Ebenen anzuwenden.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
bkh
Betatester
Posts: 3661
Joined: Thu 26 Nov 2009 22:59

Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b5

Post by bkh »

Gerhard Huber wrote:- Beschnittebenen, Arbeitsebenenmasken: Die Qualität der Maske wird durch die Ebene bestimmt
Bei Arbeitsebenen klappt das super. Bei Ebenenmasken und Beschnittebenen anscheinend leider noch nicht, da bekomme ich 8-Bit-Banding (s. Anhang). Wenn man die Ebenenmaske (an der Ebene "weiß") in 8 bit konvertiert, sieht man, dass das Banding durch Dithering (von der 8 bit-Wandlung) ersetzt wird. Wenn ich "weiß" mit einer Beschnittebene gruppiere, bekomme ich dasselbe Ergebnis.

"Umwandeln für Vorgänger" wandelt Ebenen im Moment automatisch in 8 bit um, das ist m.E. jetzt nicht mehr sinnvoll.

Sehe ich das richtig, dass die (Auswahl-)Maske derzeit immer 8 bit ist? Wenn ich die Maske (per "Maske editieren") mit einem Verlauf fülle und dann mit dieser Maske kopiere oder male, sehe ich 8-bit-Dithering, das wohl aus der Maske kommt. Wenn das mit vertretbarem Aufwand machbar wäre, fände ich es nicht schlecht, wenn auch die Maske in der Farbtiefe des Dokuments wäre.

L.G.

Burkhard.

P.S. Interpretiere ich die Bemerkung bzgl. IPTC so, dass PL jetzt auch wieder IPTC-Daten im IIM-Format schreibt und auswertet? Habe ich jetzt noch nicht getestet.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
Gerhard Huber
Entwickler
Entwickler
Posts: 4000
Joined: Mon 18 Nov 2002 15:30
Location: Bad Gögging

Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b5

Post by Gerhard Huber »

bkh wrote:P.S. Interpretiere ich die Bemerkung bzgl. IPTC so, dass PL jetzt auch wieder IPTC-Daten im IIM-Format schreibt und auswertet? Habe ich jetzt noch nicht getestet.
nein, PhotoLine schreibt momentan noch kein IIM-Format, weil ich keinen wirklichen Sinn darin sehe.
Man kann es aber manuell erzwingen, indem man in den Einstellungen den Tag
<SaveIPTC>1</SaveIPTC>
einfügt.
Der Kommentar bezieht sich darauf, dass es für IPTC-Daten einen Hash5-Tag gibt. Dieser soll sicherstellen, dass die Metadaten immer richtig gelesen werden. PhotoLine unterstützt das Verfahren jetzt - soweit mir das sinnvoll erschien.

Gerhard
Martin Huber
Entwickler
Entwickler
Posts: 3950
Joined: Tue 19 Nov 2002 15:49

Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b5

Post by Martin Huber »

bkh wrote:
Gerhard Huber wrote:- Beschnittebenen, Arbeitsebenenmasken: Die Qualität der Maske wird durch die Ebene bestimmt
Bei Arbeitsebenen klappt das super. Bei Ebenenmasken und Beschnittebenen anscheinend leider noch nicht, da bekomme ich 8-Bit-Banding (s. Anhang).
Diese Zeile bezieht sich darauf, dass Beschnittebenen und Arbeitsebenen nun die Einstellung der Glättung in den Ebenenattributen auswerten. Mit der Bittiefe von Beschnittebenen/Ebenenmasken hat das nichts zu tun. Die sind momentan weiterhin 8-bittig.
bkh wrote:Sehe ich das richtig, dass die (Auswahl-)Maske derzeit immer 8 bit ist? Wenn ich die Maske (per "Maske editieren") mit einem Verlauf fülle und dann mit dieser Maske kopiere oder male, sehe ich 8-bit-Dithering, das wohl aus der Maske kommt. Wenn das mit vertretbarem Aufwand machbar wäre, fände ich es nicht schlecht, wenn auch die Maske in der Farbtiefe des Dokuments wäre.
Das ist mehr Aufwand.

Martin
User avatar
Herbert123
Mitglied
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sat 12 May 2012 21:38

Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b5

Post by Herbert123 »

Small request to improve the usability of the text tool. As it stands now, clicking outside a text frame create a new line of text, or a text box (by dragging).

Most of the time, however, once the text boxes are set up, the user wants to be able to double-click on a text box to edit the text, and then leave text edit mode. We do not really want to create new text boxes after they are set up in the layout. To exit text mode we are now forced to either press the ESC key or click on the layer tool to exit text mode. Both options break the workflow.

How about this to make it a smoother workflow:

1) double-click to edit text and switch to the text tool. (this is already the case)
2) to leave text editing, simply click with the mouse outside a text box. Automatic switch to layer move tool.
3) if the user clicks on another text box while in text editing mode, he/she can edit the text immediately. (this is already the case)
4) to create a new text box, use the text box tool and hold down the <ctrl> key. (this is already the case when the user wants to create a new text box that lies inside a text area box).

That would save a lot of time, and prevent mis-clicks of accidentally creating lines of text and text boxes all over the place (which often happens to me now).

So, a very simple change: when the user clicks outside a text box, the layer move tool is activated. When the <ctrl> key is held down, either a new text line (click) or new text box (drag) is created.

l
/*---------------------------------------------*/
System: Win10 64bit - i7 920@3.6Ghz, p6t Deluxe v1, 48gb (6x8gb RipjawsX), Nvidia GTX1080 8GB, Revodrive X2 240gb, e-mu 1820, 2XSamsung SA850 (2560*1440) and 1XHP2408H 1920*1200 portrait
User avatar
Herbert123
Mitglied
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sat 12 May 2012 21:38

Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b5

Post by Herbert123 »

Couple of bugs:

1) create a text box, add text, and select the text. Then click in the font size field, and try to use scroll up or down on your mouse: value increases/decreases by one only.

2) Add a line of text, and create a new vector object. Duplicate the vector object as a virtual layer, and cut the virtual layer. Place the text cursor in the line of text, and paste the vector object in the line of text. Now switch to the original vector layer, and change it with the object settings or the vector tool. Result: the pasted virtual version disappears in the line of text.

3) Create a group of vector objects, and use the group as a layer mask to an image. So far, so good: the smaller vector objects punch through the larger one. Now add a text layer - text is not affecting the mask.

4) Switch the vector layer group to "Draw Isolated" - now the vector group is rasterized. The text object now does punch a hole, but should the layer mask group not remain vector?

5) turning the text layer on in the layer mask group prevents the other vector objects from having an effect - but the screen is not updated to reflect these changes. Only when I click and select one of the vector layers in the layer group does the screen update.

I attached a simple sample file to play with. Try activating the text layer, and nothing seems to happen. Then select one of the vector mask layers, and the screen updates. Switch to "draw isolated" for the layer group, and the vector masks become rasterized.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
/*---------------------------------------------*/
System: Win10 64bit - i7 920@3.6Ghz, p6t Deluxe v1, 48gb (6x8gb RipjawsX), Nvidia GTX1080 8GB, Revodrive X2 240gb, e-mu 1820, 2XSamsung SA850 (2560*1440) and 1XHP2408H 1920*1200 portrait
bkh
Betatester
Posts: 3661
Joined: Thu 26 Nov 2009 22:59

Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b5

Post by bkh »

Herbert123 wrote:Most of the time, however, once the text boxes are set up, the user wants to be able to double-click on a text box to edit the text, and then leave text edit mode. We do not really want to create new text boxes after they are set up in the layout. To exit text mode we are now forced to either press the ESC key or click on the layer tool to exit text mode. Both options break the workflow.
I tend to create empty text layers that way as well … but actually, the situation is not as bad. Just ignore the new text box and click into an existing one to edit (btw., a single click is enough), and the empty text box will disappear. (I wish they also disappeared if I change tools!)

Otoh, I wouldn't mind changing the behaviour in the way you suggested – in that way, the text tool would behave similarly to the layer tool. Maybe that's less confusing.

Cheers

Burkhard.
bkh
Betatester
Posts: 3661
Joined: Thu 26 Nov 2009 22:59

Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b5

Post by bkh »

Herbert123 wrote:1) create a text box, add text, and select the text. Then click in the font size field, and try to use scroll up or down on your mouse: value increases/decreases by one only.
Works here (OS X), so this might be specific to Windows.
Herbert123 wrote:2) Add a line of text, and create a new vector object. Duplicate the vector object as a virtual layer, and cut the virtual layer. Place the text cursor in the line of text, and paste the vector object in the line of text. Now switch to the original vector layer, and change it with the object settings or the vector tool. Result: the pasted virtual version disappears in the line of text.
Confirmed.
Herbert123 wrote:3) Create a group of vector objects, and use the group as a layer mask to an image. So far, so good: the smaller vector objects punch through the larger one. Now add a text layer - text is not affecting the mask.
In view of 5), I think that the text layer has an effect (but not the desired one).

However, it would be normal for the text layer not to punch a hole – the way vector layers interact when using them as layer masks depends on the chosen fill mode. If fill mode is even-odd, the vector layer toggles visibility, while if its fill mode is nonzero winding number, the contents of the vector layer will be made visible. Text layers always use nonzero winding number fill mode, so that overlapping text is treated correctly, so this would fit the picture. ((It's a bit strange that fill modes affect the interaction of layers here, while blend modes don't have any effect.)

Therefore, a simple solution in your case is to place the text layer(s) lowest in the group (or just to place the rounded rect on top in even-odd fill mode).
Herbert123 wrote: 4) Switch the vector layer group to "Draw Isolated" - now the vector group is rasterized. The text object now does punch a hole, but should the layer mask group not remain vector?
Generally, it's not possible to combine several vector layers into one (different line or fill colours, line widths, fill modes, blend modes, …) – and if it's possible, the results would be the same as without "Draw Isolated". Otoh, rendering the vector layers makes a lot of sense – because now colours (or shades of grey, rather), line widths, … are taken into account.
Herbert123 wrote: 5) turning the text layer on in the layer mask group prevents the other vector objects from having an effect - but the screen is not updated to reflect these changes. Only when I click and select one of the vector layers in the layer group does the screen update.
Confirmed.

Cheers

Burkhard.
Martin Huber
Entwickler
Entwickler
Posts: 3950
Joined: Tue 19 Nov 2002 15:49

Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b5

Post by Martin Huber »

bkh wrote:
Herbert123 wrote:1) create a text box, add text, and select the text. Then click in the font size field, and try to use scroll up or down on your mouse: value increases/decreases by one only.
Works here (OS X), so this might be specific to Windows.
I don't understand, what's the bug here. The increment/decrement is dependent of the unit of the field. It might be 1, 5 or any other reasonable value.
bkh wrote:
Herbert123 wrote:2) Add a line of text, and create a new vector object. Duplicate the vector object as a virtual layer, and cut the virtual layer. Place the text cursor in the line of text, and paste the vector object in the line of text. Now switch to the original vector layer, and change it with the object settings or the vector tool. Result: the pasted virtual version disappears in the line of text.
Confirmed.
It works fine here, though the virtual copy will disappear, if it becomes to large to fit into the text layer.
bkh wrote:
Herbert123 wrote:3) Create a group of vector objects, and use the group as a layer mask to an image. So far, so good: the smaller vector objects punch through the larger one. Now add a text layer - text is not affecting the mask.
In view of 5), I think that the text layer has an effect (but not the desired one).
That 's right.
bkh wrote:However, it would be normal for the text layer not to punch a hole – the way vector layers interact when using them as layer masks depends on the chosen fill mode. If fill mode is even-odd, the vector layer toggles visibility, while if its fill mode is nonzero winding number, the contents of the vector layer will be made visible. Text layers always use nonzero winding number fill mode, so that overlapping text is treated correctly, so this would fit the picture. ((It's a bit strange that fill modes affect the interaction of layers here, while blend modes don't have any effect.)
Clipping with vector/text is is mostly the way it is, in order to allow complex vector masks with PDF. In PDF clipping can just be reduced. If you clip with two overlapping circles, the result will always be the overlapping area.
So if you are using a clipping group in PhotoLine, PhotoLine will have to create a single vector path for clipping. And a single vector path can only have a single fill mode. PhotoLine uses the fill mode of the top layer as fill mode for the whole clipping group.

If you don't want to work this way, you will have to turn on "Draw Isolated". In that case the clipping group will be rasterized and the brightness will be used as opaqueness. But this kind of clipping can't be output with PDF 1.3 (and most print shops want PDF 1.3), so PhotoLine will have to rasterize layers clipped this way.
bkh wrote:
Herbert123 wrote: 5) turning the text layer on in the layer mask group prevents the other vector objects from having an effect - but the screen is not updated to reflect these changes. Only when I click and select one of the vector layers in the layer group does the screen update.
Confirmed.
This will be fixed.

Martin
bkh
Betatester
Posts: 3661
Joined: Thu 26 Nov 2009 22:59

Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b5

Post by bkh »

Martin Huber wrote:PhotoLine uses the fill mode of the top layer as fill mode for the whole clipping group.
Thanks for the clarification. I was under a false impression because there seems to be a redraw problem here, too – if you change the fill mode of the top layer, only that layer will be redrawn, not the layers below.

So if I understand things correctly, then as a clipping layer/layer mask, a text layer will behave just like a vector layer with nonzero winding number fill mode (and will be converted to a vector layer upon PDF export).

Cheers

Burkhard.
User avatar
Herbert123
Mitglied
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sat 12 May 2012 21:38

Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b5

Post by Herbert123 »

Martin Huber wrote:
bkh wrote:
Herbert123 wrote:1) create a text box, add text, and select the text. Then click in the font size field, and try to use scroll up or down on your mouse: value increases/decreases by one only.
Works here (OS X), so this might be specific to Windows.
I don't understand, what's the bug here. The increment/decrement is dependent of the unit of the field. It might be 1, 5 or any other reasonable value.
What I meant is that when I change the value with the scroll wheel, after rolling the wheel once, the field's focus is lost, and I have to click in the field once more. I also noticed that selecting some text and clicking in the font size field, and then trying to use the scroll wheel results in the font size being reset to 8px or a similar low value.
Martin Huber wrote:
bkh wrote:
Herbert123 wrote:2) Add a line of text, and create a new vector object. Duplicate the vector object as a virtual layer, and cut the virtual layer. Place the text cursor in the line of text, and paste the vector object in the line of text. Now switch to the original vector layer, and change it with the object settings or the vector tool. Result: the pasted virtual version disappears in the line of text.
Confirmed.
It works fine here, though the virtual copy will disappear, if it becomes to large to fit into the text layer.
I tested this again, and there really is something odd going on - while using the vector tool to make changes to the source layer, at some point it disappears, but I cannot get it to display after that. And the source is lost: the thumbnail is tiny, and choosing "show source layer" does not work. It is an empty virtual copy - no contents!
Martin Huber wrote:
bkh wrote:
Herbert123 wrote:3) Create a group of vector objects, and use the group as a layer mask to an image. So far, so good: the smaller vector objects punch through the larger one. Now add a text layer - text is not affecting the mask.
In view of 5), I think that the text layer has an effect (but not the desired one).
That 's right.
? meaning the text object is different in nature compared to a vector shape?
Martin Huber wrote:
bkh wrote:However, it would be normal for the text layer not to punch a hole – the way vector layers interact when using them as layer masks depends on the chosen fill mode. If fill mode is even-odd, the vector layer toggles visibility, while if its fill mode is nonzero winding number, the contents of the vector layer will be made visible. Text layers always use nonzero winding number fill mode, so that overlapping text is treated correctly, so this would fit the picture. ((It's a bit strange that fill modes affect the interaction of layers here, while blend modes don't have any effect.)
Clipping with vector/text is is mostly the way it is, in order to allow complex vector masks with PDF. In PDF clipping can just be reduced. If you clip with two overlapping circles, the result will always be the overlapping area.
So if you are using a clipping group in PhotoLine, PhotoLine will have to create a single vector path for clipping. And a single vector path can only have a single fill mode. PhotoLine uses the fill mode of the top layer as fill mode for the whole clipping group.

If you don't want to work this way, you will have to turn on "Draw Isolated". In that case the clipping group will be rasterized and the brightness will be used as opaqueness. But this kind of clipping can't be output with PDF 1.3 (and most print shops want PDF 1.3), so PhotoLine will have to rasterize layers clipped this way.
Ah, makes sense,
/*---------------------------------------------*/
System: Win10 64bit - i7 920@3.6Ghz, p6t Deluxe v1, 48gb (6x8gb RipjawsX), Nvidia GTX1080 8GB, Revodrive X2 240gb, e-mu 1820, 2XSamsung SA850 (2560*1440) and 1XHP2408H 1920*1200 portrait
bkh
Betatester
Posts: 3661
Joined: Thu 26 Nov 2009 22:59

Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b5

Post by bkh »

Ich hatte jetzt gerade zum zweiten Mal den Effekt, dass PL plötzlich nicht mehr auf Maus- oder Tastatureingaben in Fenstern und Panels reagiert. Die Menüs konnte ich allerdings noch mit der Maus bedienen (Tastaturshortcuts gingen auch nicht mehr). Wie ich da "hineingeraten" bin, weiß ich leider nicht, und leider bin ich mir nicht mehr sicher, mit welcher Beta das zum ersten Mal passiert ist, das ist schon ein paar Tage her. Ist sonst jemandem so etwas schon einmal aufgefallen? (OS X 10.9.1, PL 64 bit). Gibt es irgendwas, das ich zur Diagnose machen kann, wenn mir das nochmal passiert?

L.G.

Burkhard.