Neue Testversion 18.40b6

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bkh
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b6

Post by bkh »

Gerhard Huber wrote: I can't see a problem here. Do you scale the layer with the layer move tool or the scale function (dialog)?
Here, this happens with either method, or by just setting the scaling in the Attributes layer.

Here's a a simpler example (just the large letter "G" from the previous example). Scaled down to 3 %, this is what it looks like here (at 1600 % screen magnification):
g.png
(with the "Edit Vector Points" tool active – one can see that the curve drawn doesn't match the vector points). The PLD file is attached below.

Strangely, I can only reproduce the effect with the large letters in Herbert's example – the smaller letters behave perfectly when scaled down.

EDIT: If I save the g.pld as a PDF or SVG and re-open the PDF or SVG version, then the result looks ok again.

Cheers

Burkhard.
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Martin Huber
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b6

Post by Martin Huber »

bkh wrote:Strangely, I can only reproduce the effect with the large letters in Herbert's example – the smaller letters behave perfectly when scaled down.
and
Herbert123 wrote:*edit* This is caused by the pixel alignment, I just discovered.
Herbert123 is right here. At first I was confused, because pixel alignment is turned on for the large "A" and the large "G" only, but not for the "E" and the rest of the text.

I think, that is an inherent problem of pixel alignment. Or is there any reasonable solution to this problem? Is there a way to align complex vector shapes?

Edit: It's probably better to just align horizontal and vertical lines or curves.

Martin
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photoken
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b6

Post by photoken »

Herbert123 wrote:I am revisiting an old request of mine: smooth strokes.
Looks like this was fixed in PL18.40b7. Many thanks!
Ken
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Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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Herbert123
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b6

Post by Herbert123 »

photoken wrote:
Herbert123 wrote:I am revisiting an old request of mine: smooth strokes.
Looks like this was fixed in PL18.40b7. Many thanks!
Not completely, unfortunately. The jaggies are gone, but the lines are still very wobbly when drawing at 25% or 50% A4@300ppi - if anything, it got worse when drawing at 200%: the lines are slightly wobbly even at 200%. Which did not happen before.
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Martin Huber
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b6

Post by Martin Huber »

Herbert123 wrote:
photoken wrote:
Herbert123 wrote:I am revisiting an old request of mine: smooth strokes.
Looks like this was fixed in PL18.40b7. Many thanks!
Not completely, unfortunately.
The problem above are two problems:
1. The mouse position from the OS is always wrong because it is aligned to screen pixels. Depending on the document zoom this error can be severe. If you are drawing fast (or the painting application is slow), the error can be diminished.

2. Painting by hand (especially slow painting) is usually rough. This can be solved by delaying drawing and by doing a kind of curve optimization.

The Beta 7 should solve the problem 1, and in my opinion this works well.
Herbert123 wrote:The jaggies are gone, but the lines are still very wobbly when drawing at 25% or 50% A4@300ppi - if anything, it got worse when drawing at 200%: the lines are slightly wobbly even at 200%. Which did not happen before.
I can't reproduce this problem, neither by using the mouse nor by using a graphic tablet. With 200% I get the same results compared to the last version.

Martin
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photoken
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b6

Post by photoken »

Martin Huber wrote:1. The mouse position from the OS is always wrong because it is aligned to screen pixels. Depending on the document zoom this error can be severe. If you are drawing fast (or the painting application is slow), the error can be diminished.
...

The Beta 7 should solve the problem 1, and in my opinion this works well.
Agreed.
Martin Huber wrote:2. Painting by hand (especially slow painting) is usually rough. This can be solved by delaying drawing and by doing a kind of curve optimization.
I don't like the sound of that. I don't know if Corel uses that technique in their applications, but their CorelDraw and PaintShopPro are notorious for having the drawn lines lag considerably behind the movement of the cursor. It's obnoxious as hell, and ultimately the frustration keeps me from using those programs for drawing.
Martin Huber wrote:
Herbert123 wrote:The jaggies are gone, but the lines are still very wobbly when drawing at 25% or 50% A4@300ppi - if anything, it got worse when drawing at 200%: the lines are slightly wobbly even at 200%. Which did not happen before.
I can't reproduce this problem, neither by using the mouse nor by using a graphic tablet. With 200% I get the same results compared to the last version.
I also get the same results as before at 200%.

The bottom line for me is that a hand-drawn line should not be mechanically perfect -- it should have some "character". With PL18.40b7, the hand-drawn lines are at the point where I cannot tell if the "wobbliness" is due to my motion, or the slight roughness of the tablet's surface, or a software issue.
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
Martin Huber
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b6

Post by Martin Huber »

photoken wrote:
Martin Huber wrote:2. Painting by hand (especially slow painting) is usually rough. This can be solved by delaying drawing and by doing a kind of curve optimization.
I don't like the sound of that. I don't know if Corel uses that technique in their applications, but their CorelDraw and PaintShopPro are notorious for having the drawn lines lag considerably behind the movement of the cursor. (…)
If we implement this, it will have to be turned on explicitly.

Martin
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Herbert123
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b6

Post by Herbert123 »

Martin Huber wrote:
photoken wrote:
Martin Huber wrote:2. Painting by hand (especially slow painting) is usually rough. This can be solved by delaying drawing and by doing a kind of curve optimization.
I don't like the sound of that. I don't know if Corel uses that technique in their applications, but their CorelDraw and PaintShopPro are notorious for having the drawn lines lag considerably behind the movement of the cursor. (…)
If we implement this, it will have to be turned on explicitly.

Martin
I would very much like an option like that - perhaps even with a slider in the drawing option to control the amount of curve optimization, so it could be matched to any user's expectations/preferences. Thank you!
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Ralf
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b6

Post by Ralf »

Herbert123 wrote:
Martin Huber wrote:2. … This can be solved by delaying drawing and by doing a kind of curve optimization.
If we implement this, it will have to be turned on explicitly.
[…]
… a slider in the drawing option to control the amount of curve optimization, so it could be matched to any user's expectations/preferences. Thank you!
That would be fine for me, too.

Ralf