Neue Testversion 18.40b19

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bkh
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b19

Post by bkh »

Hoogo wrote:Ich erkläre mir das so, daß der Pinsel in eine versteckte Bitmap für die Deckkraft malt, die dann mit dem Bild verrechnet wird. Müssten nicht alle Probleme verschwinden, wenn man an der Stelle beim Malen nicht einfach summiert, sondern ein Maximum bildet?
Wenn das wirklich so implementiert ist, dann wäre das mit dem Maximum m. E. eine geniale Lösung. Ganz kleine Pinselschrittweiten wären dann kein Problem mehr.

Eine Sache ist allerdings am momentanen Verhalten ganz praktisch: man kann bei einer Maske durch häufiges Übermalen eine Kante härter machen, ohne die Pinselhärte zu ändern. Aber stattdessen könnte ich mir ja einen Modus "Pinselhärte" für das Grafiktablett wünschen :mrgreen:

L.G.

Burkhard.
Martin Huber
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b19

Post by Martin Huber »

bkh wrote:Ich habe gerade gesehen, dass das Problem auch in der Vorschau einer neu angelegten Arbeitsebene (z. B. "Gauss'scher Weichzeichner") auftaucht – auch ohne Auswahl. Ist das schon mit behoben, oder taucht der gleiche Fehler hier nochmals auf?
Ich denke, dass ist das gleiche Problem. Ich seh's mir an.

Martin
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b19

Post by Martin Huber »

Hoogo wrote:Wenn man mit 20% Deckkraft mit weichem Pinsel in kleinen Kreisen malt, dann wird die Kante immer härter.
Wenn man mit 100% Deckkraft und spezieller Pinselkurve malt, die am Ende nur bei 20% endet, dann wird der Pinselabdruck dabei sogar immer schwärzer - unabhängig, was unter "Edit > Options > Working > Brush > Paint only once" eigentlich eingetragen ist.
"Paint only once" ist im Prinzip die falsche Bezeichnung. Es müsste eigentlich "Nur maximal mit der eingestellten Intensität malen" heißen. Aber "Nur einmal übermalen" wäre auch nicht wirklich sinnvoll, weil ansonsten bei geglätteten Pinseln der weiche Pinselrand nicht mehr übermalt würde.
Hoogo wrote:Ich erkläre mir das so, daß der Pinsel in eine versteckte Bitmap für die Deckkraft malt, die dann mit dem Bild verrechnet wird. Müssten nicht alle Probleme verschwinden, wenn man an der Stelle beim Malen nicht einfach summiert, sondern ein Maximum bildet?
Es wird momentan nicht summiert, sondern normal gemischt (wie bei Farben mit Alpha auch). Ein Maximum-Modus hat andere Probleme:
- Die Schrittweite muss generell kleiner werden, was das Malen langsamer macht.
- Es ist kaum mehr möglich, mit einem komplett weichen Pinsel eine Fläche komplett abzudecken, da der 100%-deckende Kernbereich bei einem weichen Pinsel nur wenige Pixel umfasst.
- Das Ergebnis sieht - meiner Ansicht nach - falsch aus (zumindest wenn ich keinen Fehler gemacht habe).

Ich denke, der bessere Weg ist es, die richtige Kombination aus Pinselverlaufskurve und Schrittweite zu finden.
Photoshop verwendet bei einem weichen Pinsel in Wirklichkeit einen deutlich größeren Pinsel, der sehr weich ausläuft (ähnlich unseren Standardpinseln, auch wenn Alan9940 das nicht glaubt). Wenn ich bei meiner alten Photoshop-Version einen komplett weichen Pinsel mit einem Durchmesser von 200 Pixel verwende, dann verändert er noch in einer Entfernung von 162 Pixeln die Bildwerte. Er verwendet also einen Pinsel mit mindestens 324 Pixeln Durchmesser.
Hoogo wrote:Kann sein, daß ich das Thema schonmal angesprochen habe, sowas vergisst man ja wieder...
Ich denke, wir hatten das schon mal, da ich schon Code für einen Maximum-Modus hatte. Ich habe den mal wieder aktiviert, so dass man ihn durch einen Registry-Eintrag ("BrushMaxMode") einschalten kann. Dann könnt ihr euch das in der nächsten Beta ansehen.

Martin
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Herbert123
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b19

Post by Herbert123 »

Strange behaviour: when I lock a group, I expect all the child elements of that group to be locked as well. Otherwise, I would have locked the child element, NOT the group.

Currently the children of a locked group are NOT locked, which makes no real sense - the whole point of locking a group is to lock all the inside elements as well and safeguard those from selection and translation. That is how it works in any other design application I have used so far.

Also, it is very difficult to rename a layer - especially with a wacom tablet. Sometimes I have to try three or four times before PL "gets it" that I wish to rename a layer. The old layer dialog is gone, and there is no layer name entry in the layer pane. In Windows F2 is the standard shortcut to rename things - it would be extremely handy to allow for that.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b19

Post by Herbert123 »

Also strange: when the user switches to pixel mode (ctrl-1), the guides do not snap to pixels, and it is still possible to position a guide to a decimal number. Ideally the user would expect when he/she switches to pixel mode that the guides snap to pixels. We are now forced to manually adjust each guide with decimals in the guide manager. Extremely laborious.

And talking about guides, a couple of things would make working with guides in Photoline a thousand times easier and more convenient (really!). Dealing with guides in Photoline is a chore - but it is so essential for any designer...

- layers should become part of a layer, so that we can create multiple layer sets, and show and hide different parts of the guides, grids, etc. we create. Imagine having two or three different grids for different purposes, all displayed at the same time: it does not work. A designer needs more control over which guides are shown, and which are hidden.

- ideally the label colour of the layer should control the colour of the guides placed on that layer.

- a way to select multiple guides and move them all at once.

- dragging a guide into the document does not display a coordinate while dragging where the mouse cursor is, which makes it trial and error to place it precisely. We now have to look in the far bottom right corner to see the coordinates.

- guides should behave like any other object: we should be able to select them, and use the alignment tools, mirror tools, etc.

- there should be a way to convert shapes to guides, and vice versa. Circles often are used for non-rectangular grids, for example.

- guides should also be rotatable, so we can create a 45 degree slanted grid for example.

-layers can only be moved with the mouse. Users should be able to select one or more guides, and move those with the cursor keys.

- in the layer guide manager we cannot multiple select guides in the list, so we are forced to change the page setting for each individual guide entry one at a time. Very laborious and cumbersome. (And this should really be solved with a page template system in Photoline!)

- clicking a guide in the view does not highlight the selected guide in the guide manager. It is almost impossible to select a guide visually - we are forced to check the ruler first, and then scroll down in the (potentially) long list of guide entries in the guide manager, hoping to find it.

- a guide preset should be able to automatically adjust to a different page width and height, both horizontally and vertically.

- a way to generate grids with guides automatically, like the guideguide extension (minimum requirement), or (even better) Grid Calculate basic/Pro:
http://guideguide.me/
http://designersbookshop.com/grid-calcu ... ition.html
http://designersbookshop.com/grid-calcu ... ition.html

Here is the code for a similar extension written in Python for InkScape:
https://github.com/sambody/inkscape-guide-tools

By the way, I feel a number of these issues are also caused by the fact that Photoline lacks page template system.

Guides are so incredibly important for any designer (print or digital)! Without a good, or even reasonable, guide system designing in Photoline becomes much harder and more cumbersome than it needs to be. The current implementation is VERY rough around the edges, and, speaking for myself as a professional designer, I keep hitting the proverbial "brick wall" when dealing with guides. It takes way too much time to deal with them in Photoline - something that takes a minute in other design software (more complicated guide based grids) can take up to an hour or more in Photoline.

For example, it took me two hours to create three grids: a 12, 18, and 24 column grid. Two hours!!! And then those will ONLY work for the exact page size they were created for. For a different page size I have to do it all over again!

Currently I use the workaround where I create multiple presets in the guide manager in PL, but because those presets do not automatically adjust to the current page size at all. It is a stop-gap solution that does not work very well, and takes too much time.

If Photoline would have had a scripting interface I would have written a script for this myself a year ago. But I cannot. All the functionality I listed above is 90% part of other layout applications (either as part of the application, or through plugins/extensions). As it stands now it is extraordinarily tough to deal with guides in Photoline for a designer- almost torturous.

I implore you Photoline Brothers: please consider improving the guide system. And while you do so, also consider to implement a page template system.

Pretty please? :(
Last edited by Herbert123 on Sun 21 Sep 2014 03:18, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b19

Post by Herbert123 »

One more bug, guide related:

- add four guides: two horizontal, and two vertical ones to create a rectangle.
- switch to pixel mode (ctrl-1).
- open the guide manager, and change each guide position to a round pixel value (no decimals)
- draw a rectangle, and snap all four sides to the guides. Set a stroke of 1px and a clear outline colour.
- turn on alignment (pixel snapping) in the layer panel

Now notice how the top and left edge DO NOT align within the guides. The 1px edge lies outside the guides:
error.png
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b19

Post by Herbert123 »

Another bug (apologies, I am working on a couple of layouts for a client, so I am discovering more now):

- select an element.
- activate "centered" in the layer tool properties (Q).
- open the layer properties panel, and change the scaling by entering a smaller or bigger number.

Result: the layer does not scale from the center out. It scales from the left top.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b19

Post by Herbert123 »

One more bug...

When I try to select a colour in the dropdown in the tools palette, the hexadecimal colour tooltip often gets in the way of selecting a colour.

This is especially true when working with a Wacom tablet. It means that when I try to select a colour this way, and I am not very careful, I click inadvertently on the tooltip instead - causing no change in colour, and it left me wondering what I was doing wrong all the time.

In the screenshot below you can see how the red colour swatch is almost completely obscured by the tooltip, and clicking the swatch results in a "mis-click", and I have to try again.
error2.jpg
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photoken
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Bug: Scaled vector layer displays wrong line width

Post by photoken »

Win7 x64
PL 18.40b19 x64

Steps to reproduce:
  • Create an empty image.
  • Draw an ellipse with no fill and a coloured line of 5px width.
  • Duplicate that ellipse layer.
  • Use Layer...Scale Layer to scale the duplicated vector layer using a Formula of w*2 and h*2.
Result:
The line width is scaled to 200%, but the Toolbar still displays the width as "5px". In this example, I scaled the small blue ellipse as described, and changed its line colour to red:
scale result.jpg
For comparison, I duplicated the small ellipse layer again and used the Layer tool to scale it by dragging its corner handle, keeping its line colour as blue. In this case, the line width remains at 5px -- you can see the difference. To get the red ellipse line width to 5px, I need to change its line width to 2.5px in the Toolbar.

I'll add another message for a feature request relating to this scaling of vector layers.
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Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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photoken
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Req: Option for scaling vector attributes

Post by photoken »

As I described in my previous message, when a vector layer is scaled using Layer...Scale Layer and a formula (w*2 and h*2), the line width is also scaled upwards.

This increase in line width is often not desired. I'd like to have an option in the Scale Layer dialog to enable or disable scaling the vector attributes such as line width.
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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Herbert123
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b19

Post by Herbert123 »

Fatal crashing bug!

Documents with multiple pages will crash Photoline when:

1) open the attached file in Photoline
2) open the pages panel.
3) select (click) page 1

3) now place the mouse cursor over the "Page 2" title. Click and drag a little bit over the "Page 2" label - crash!

Same will happen when you try to click and drag the selected page in the pages panel.

It may take a couple of attempts, but I can consistently crash Photoline with this. It also explains why Photoline regularly crashes when I work on documents with multiple pages. I could never explain these before, because they seemed like random crashes.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b19

Post by photoken »

Herbert123 wrote: 3) now place the mouse cursor over the "Page 2" title. Click and drag a little bit over the "Page 2" label - crash!

Same will happen when you try to click and drag the selected page in the pages panel.

It may take a couple of attempts, but I can consistently crash Photoline with this.
Win7 x64 SP1
PL 18.40b19 x64

It doesn't happen all the time, but if I keep dragging pages to re-order them, eventually PL will crash.

(BTW, I'll file another bug report regarding pages in my next message.)
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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photoken
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Bug: "Revert to Saved" clears pages panel

Post by photoken »

Win7 x64 SP1
PL 18.40b19 x64

Steps to reproduce:
  • Open a multi-page PLD document.
  • Show the Pages panel.
  • Choose File...Revert to Saved.
Result:
The Pages panel is cleared -- no pages are shown.
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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Hoogo
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.40b19

Post by Hoogo »

Wow, that's a lot to comment...
Herbert123 wrote:Also strange: when the user switches to pixel mode (ctrl-1), the guides do not snap to pixels, and it is still possible to position a guide to a decimal number. Ideally the user would expect when he/she switches to pixel mode that the guides snap to pixels...
Disagree. All the options within "view" only alter the appearance of the picture, not the work with it. "Pixel mode" means "how would the picture look like when it was reduced to a background layer?". I would add "snap to pixels" to the alignment helpers that snaps when a vector is created. On the other hand: There is already an "align"-property in the attributes of vector layers, that works no matter how a vector was created.

About guides: There's the button "align to auto guides" in the align toolbar. A group named "Guides" on top of your layer stack full of vectors could already do a lot of things you desire:
Herbert123 wrote:- layers (you mean guides) should become part of a layer, so that we can create multiple layer sets, and show and hide different parts of the guides...
- ideally the label colour of the layer should control the colour of the guides placed on that layer.
- a way to select multiple guides and move them all at once.
- guides should behave like any other object: we should be able to select them, and use the alignment tools, mirror tools, etc.
- guides should also be rotatable, so we can create a 45 degree slanted grid for example.
Herbert123 wrote:it took me two hours to create three grids: a 12, 18, and 24 column grid. Two hours!!! And then those will ONLY work for the exact page size they were created for. For a different page size I have to do it all over again!
I agree that it isn't obvious, but with the above and "morph vector layers" this should be achieved quite quickly.
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Hoogo
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Re: Bug: Scaled vector layer displays wrong line width

Post by Hoogo »

photoken wrote:...
  • Create an empty image.
  • Draw an ellipse with no fill and a coloured line of 5px width.
  • Duplicate that ellipse layer.
  • Use Layer...Scale Layer to scale the duplicated vector layer using a Formula of w*2 and h*2.
The result looks fine to me. Any kind of layer has the zoom-property in its attributes, and scaling a vector layer only changes that attribute. Call "fix layer", and the zoom factor will go to 100%, and the line width will turn to 10.
I won't swear, but I think that quite some versions ago the vector was still drawn with width of 5, regardless of the zoom factor, but that wasn't right either.
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