Neue Testversion 18.90b2

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bkh
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b2

Post by bkh »

Herbert123 wrote:I could probably write a grid generator in a scripting language in less time than it takes me to create two or three 24 column grids with gutters in Photoline. And I would have done this a long time ago if Photoline offered us a scripting API.
Have you considered writing a simple program to create the needed .plgu preset file? It's probably easier to decode the structure of .plgu files than to learn a PL Guides API. (And it would be much easier for the Hubers to explain/document the .plgu file structure than to write and document a corresponding API.)

Talking about this, I'd really love to see PL adopt xml formatted settings files – they would be mostly self-documenting and could even be modified in a text editor. Having been able to edit the Photoline.xml settings file has proved very useful a couple of times.

Btw., it's still not clear to me what your intended automatic guide creation tool is supposed to do, exactly. Shoudl it look like the "Create Text Columns" part in the "Create Document" pane, just with rows and vertical spacing between the rows added (and creating guides rather than text columns, of course)?

There are also a number of useful tricks to create evenly spaced guides. Create the corresponding column pattern using rectangles (you only need the columns), move the left and right one into place and use "Distribute Layers Equally" to place the rest, then align your guides to the rectangles. Repeat for the rows. Takes a few minutes, not an hour.

Cheers

Burkhard.
JulianZI
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b2

Post by JulianZI »

I like the idea with a script language (if any JavaScript!) - but it goes pretty far and would involve a lot of work and testing for ComputerInsel which could be spend more wisely.

I can imagine: if there was a button called "Duplicate" which would simply create new X and Y lines in a specified distance most problems can be elegantly solved:
guides_duplicate1.png
The added elements in the form are checkboxes for each row, an edit field and a single duplicate button.
If the user has selected certain elements a click on the duplicate button would recreate those elements in the X and Y offset specified in the edit field.
The new elements would be selected (checked), the previous unchecked.

So pressing 24 times Duplicate in this example would create 24 new lines in distances of 1 cm.

The offset value is simply added so it would be possible to use a formula for this. Since the formula can become pretty long after duplications, I would suggest to create a formula such as
value = "(oldvalue)+(formula) * 1t", with "t for times"

If that value is duplicated, the logic can check if there is a "xt" in the value at the end and increment the x by one. So after 24 press in the example above the value would read
value = (1cm) + (1cm) * 24t
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photoken
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b2

Post by photoken »

bkh wrote: Have you considered writing a simple program to create the needed .plgu preset file? It's probably easier to decode the structure of .plgu files than to learn a PL Guides API. (And it would be much easier for the Hubers to explain/document the .plgu file structure than to write and document a corresponding API.)
I'm not 123, but I've started thinking about that. It would be a good excuse for me to get back into C# and the new Visual Studio. As long as I didn't provide an image preview, it should be fairly straightforward to generate the formulas as lines of text in an editing area, and from there the formulas could be copied and then pasted into PL's Guides dialog. If the .PLGU binary file were documented, then the result could be immediately saved as a preset file. Interesting.... :idea:
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Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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photoken
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b2

Post by photoken »

Herbert123 wrote:...any .net language is out, because it would not be compatible for Macs.
And the problem is? :wink:
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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photoken
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b2

Post by photoken »

Herbert123 wrote:Well, let's just agree to disagree on the point of guides in Photoline.
Yeah. Just to be clear, I'm not saying those features wouldn't be useful in certain circumstances, but my priorities are very different.
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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photoken
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b2

Post by photoken »

bkh wrote: Talking about this, I'd really love to see PL adopt xml formatted settings files – they would be mostly self-documenting and could even be modified in a text editor.
+1
+1
and +1
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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Herbert123
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b2

Post by Herbert123 »

photoken wrote:
bkh wrote: Talking about this, I'd really love to see PL adopt xml formatted settings files – they would be mostly self-documenting and could even be modified in a text editor.
+1
+1
and +1
+1000 from me.

And ken: writing a small external app to create a guides file is actually not such a bad thought. As a matter of fact, last month I had an idea to create the "ultimate" guide/grid system creator for a variety of design platforms/apps - but I quickly realized it would not be that useful since the user would have to go back and forth that tool and the application, loading them up, again and again. And there would be no real-time feedback at all either :/ (which is extremely important from a designer's point of view).

And I asked myself: "Would I use a tool like that as a designer myself?" And the answer was "No". So it would save some time, but the entire process would still be rather inconvenient and a workflow breaker. As a designer I want to be able to introduce grid systems quickly and efficiently in my design workflow, and not be bogged down by actually having to think how to CREATE the same guides. The guides are a means to assist in the design process, and not the goal in themselves.

So forcing the user to actually THINK about how to create the grid is not something any designer would welcome at all. (Unless you are a web front end dev, in which case you would use SASS to create the columns in a couple of lines of code. :-)
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Herbert123
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b2

Post by Herbert123 »

Btw, I have noticed that the guides panel does not update properly in the newest beta anymore. When I add new guides and change the orientation and/or the page option, it does not update those changes. And when I leave the panel open, and start PL the panel is empty.
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Herbert123
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b2

Post by Herbert123 »

bkh wrote:
Herbert123 wrote:
Btw., it's still not clear to me what your intended automatic guide creation tool is supposed to do, exactly. Shoudl it look like the "Create Text Columns" part in the "Create Document" pane, just with rows and vertical spacing between the rows added (and creating guides rather than text columns, of course)?

There are also a number of useful tricks to create evenly spaced guides. Create the corresponding column pattern using rectangles (you only need the columns), move the left and right one into place and use "Distribute Layers Equally" to place the rest, then align your guides to the rectangles. Repeat for the rows. Takes a few minutes, not an hour.

Cheers

Burkhard.
To get a better idea of what I am talking about, please check out:
http://guideguide.me/
http://designersbookshop.com/grid-calcu ... ition.html

This is Scribus:
Manageguides2.jpg
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photoken
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b2

Post by photoken »

Herbert123 wrote:And ken: writing a small external app to create a guides file is actually not such a bad thought. As a matter of fact, last month I had an idea to create the "ultimate" guide/grid system creator for a variety of design platforms/apps - but I quickly realized it would not be that useful since the user would have to go back and forth that tool and the application, loading them up, again and again. And there would be no real-time feedback at all either :/ (which is extremely important from a designer's point of view).)
Yeah, those are the limitations of a separate, external application, all right. My experience with using CorelDraw's supplied VSTA (Visual Studio Tools for Applications) was great, which is why I mention it. The resulting compiled "add-in" runs within the CDR process and updates the main CDR editing window when the add-in's "Execute" button is pressed. That's the "feedback" -- not exactly real-time, but still very nice. The add-in remains loaded, so subsequent revisions are easy.
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b2

Post by JulianZI »

photoken wrote:
bkh wrote: Talking about this, I'd really love to see PL adopt xml formatted settings files – they would be mostly self-documenting and could even be modified in a text editor.
+1
+1
and +1
+1

Including .NET as script language: -1
PhotoLine is small and slick and runs everywhere, let not change this. JavaScript, yes.

I repeat the idea to make it possible to hook Actions into the menu. I think the idea and power of actions is partly wasted if they are just listed in one dialog box. Certain actions could be listed under "Effects", under "Layers" etc.
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ellhel
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b2

Post by ellhel »

Hallo,

leider habe ich momentan (aus beruflichen Gründen) nicht ganz soviel Zeit. Das Betatester-Forum versuche ich aber trotzdem zwischendurch immer wieder mal zu "überfliegen". Wie es aussieht dreht sich zur Zeit ein Großteil um den Ausbau der Hilfslinienfunktion.
Meine Meinung dazu: Egal um welche Programmerweiterungen es geht. Man sollte nie die PhotoLine-Einsteiger vergessen. Egal wer PL zum erstenmal benutzt, sei es ein PhotoShop-Profi der umsteigt, oder ein Neuling, die Funktionen sollte sich nicht allzusehr "im Verborgenen" befinden. Wenn die Hubers auf die Wünsche eingehen, dann bitte so das die von jedermann zu bedienen sind. Also im Hilfslinien-Dialog.
Ich bin kein Computerprofi, daher bringt mir ein erstellen von Hilfslinien in "Script language", "XML" usw. nicht viel. Wenn, dann sollte man alles aus dem Hilfslinien-Dialog heraus bewerkstelligen können, so wie sich das gehört. Alles andere ist "optional".
Was übrigens auch ein schönes Feature wäre: Wenn man Objekte mit den Hilfslinien an denen sie ausgerichtet wurden, verschieben könnte.

Eine weitere feine Sache wäre die Möglichkeit zum erstellen eines Zeilen-und Spaltenhilfsgitters.Hier mal ein Beispiel wie es ein Mitbewerber macht.
Zeilen und Spalten als Hilfslinien.jpg
Liebe Grüße
Helmut
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Herbert123
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b2

Post by Herbert123 »

ellhel wrote:Hallo,

Meine Meinung dazu: Egal um welche Programmerweiterungen es geht. Man sollte nie die PhotoLine-Einsteiger vergessen. Egal wer PL zum erstenmal benutzt, sei es ein PhotoShop-Profi der umsteigt, oder ein Neuling, die Funktionen sollte sich nicht allzusehr "im Verborgenen" befinden. Wenn die Hubers auf die Wünsche eingehen, dann bitte so das die von jedermann zu bedienen sind. Also im Hilfslinien-Dialog.

Was übrigens auch ein schönes Feature wäre: Wenn man Objekte mit den Hilfslinien an denen sie ausgerichtet wurden, verschieben könnte.

Eine weitere feine Sache wäre die Möglichkeit zum erstellen eines Zeilen-und Spaltenhilfsgitters.Hier mal ein Beispiel wie es ein Mitbewerber macht.
Zeilen und Spalten als Hilfslinien.jpg
Liebe Grüße
Helmut
+1
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Herbert123
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b2

Post by Herbert123 »

Consistent crash:

Open the attached file, then click once on the group's + sign to open the group in the layer panel. Then click the - sign to close it again: crash!
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photoken
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b2

Post by photoken »

ellhel wrote:Was übrigens auch ein schönes Feature wäre: Wenn man Objekte mit den Hilfslinien an denen sie ausgerichtet wurden, verschieben könnte.
That's unnecessary because the Auto-Guides already provides that capability. The Auto-Guides also can be used to position a guide line.
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.