Neue Testversion 18.90b2

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Herbert123
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b2

Post by Herbert123 »

I think he means that objects, when snapped to a particular guide, will move together with that guide when the guide itself is moved.

That would actually be a very handy feature. MagnetoGuides does exactly that in InDesign (it's an extension):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrRjLMwxTvU
https://www.rorohiko.com/wordpress/inde ... chor-49575

Actually, it would be an awesome feature - no other design tool I know of can do this. It would be an excellent addition - but I feel the guide system needs an update before something like this could be implemented (at a miminum we should be able to hide and show sets of guides).
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ellhel
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b2

Post by ellhel »

Herbert123 wrote:I think he means that objects, when snapped to a particular guide, will move together with that guide when the guide itself is moved.

That would actually be a very handy feature. MagnetoGuides does exactly that in InDesign (it's an extension):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrRjLMwxTvU
https://www.rorohiko.com/wordpress/inde ... chor-49575

Actually, it would be an awesome feature - no other design tool I know of can do this. It would be an excellent addition - but I feel the guide system needs an update before something like this could be implemented (at a miminum we should be able to hide and show sets of guides).
Hallo,

hier hab ich mal ein kleines Demovideo hochgeladen. Das ganze habe ich mit PagePlus (nutze ich eigentlich nicht mehr) gemacht. Man sieht da aber schön wie sich die Objekte an den Hilfslinien andocken und wieder ablösen lassen. Ist eine schöne Funktion. (Man muß im Video genau auf die kleinen roten "Andockpfeile" und auf das "Kettensymbol" achten :wink: )

Regards
Helmut
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photoken
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b2

Post by photoken »

Herbert123 wrote:I think he means that objects, when snapped to a particular guide, will move together with that guide when the guide itself is moved.
That still sounds like a bad idea. The objects and guides should be independent of each other, or else what's the purpose of having guides? You can already select those objects (or group them) and move them as a unit. Redundant "feature".
Herbert123 wrote:Actually, it would be an awesome feature - no other design tool I know of can do this.
Definitely not "awesome". Other design tools probably don't do that for a very good reason.
Last edited by photoken on Sat 11 Oct 2014 23:48, edited 1 time in total.
Ken
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b2

Post by photoken »

ellhel wrote: Das ganze habe ich mit PagePlus (nutze ich eigentlich nicht mehr) gemacht.
That's the whole point of this overly long discussion about guides (of all things). PL should first and foremost be an image editing application. Leave the more sophisticated page layout features to applications that specialize in page layout, where those features are needed for extended layouts used for books, etc.
Ken
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Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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Herbert123
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b2

Post by Herbert123 »

photoken wrote:
Herbert123 wrote:I think he means that objects, when snapped to a particular guide, will move together with that guide when the guide itself is moved.
That still sounds like a bad idea. The objects and guides should be independent of each other, or else what's the purpose of having guides? You can already select those objects (or group them) and move them as a unit. Redundant "feature".
Herbert123 wrote:Actually, it would be an awesome feature - no other design tool I know of can do this.
Definitely not "awesome". Other design tools probably don't do that for a very good reason.
I think it really is very useful to have, but of course that is only the case if you use Photoline for more complicated design work (such as mockups for GUIs, web pages, print layouts) - and InDesign, for example, also has such features built-in (way more, actually). It is not rare at all - more modern design apps all have these type features.

Suppose I create a bunch of buttons in a menu - dragging the guide moves all the snapped buttons plus other related elements - that is gold. That saves a lot of time, and makes it very simple to repurpose your designs for different screen sizes. Sure, I could use groups, select layers, and so on - but it is a great time saver.

I still think everyone can benefit from such tools. Yes, I agree we also need improvements in the image editing part of Photoline: for example, a refine edge option like PH, a more refined hue/saturation filter, some RAW refinements, etc. We can all benefit from an improved guide system, in my opinion.

And looking at new tools like Affinity from Serif, those tools also include these types of more forward-thinking functionality. Because of Adobe's CC subscription only model, more and more users are looking for viable alternatives, and a number of companies have taken note of this. The competition in this market segment will become fierce, if you ask me. Photoline could be part of it, or be left behind.

An image editor is not merely used for photographic editing only, but for much, much more. Otherwise 90% of web designers and GUI creators would not be using Photoshop. Besides, Photoline traditionally has had features that are clearly defined towards layout design, and with a couple more things (better guides, addition of a simple page template system, symbols panel based on virtual instances, option to switch states for easily for layers) it would be able to grab a very important niche in the market.

Of course, this is my opinion as a web dev, game dev, and graphic designer with 20 years of experience. This is exactly why Photoline proved such an incredibly attractive proposition to me: I do not think anyone's intention here is to plan to layout books or magazines in Photoline; however, but for a couple of missing features, it could be the perfect fit for anyone wanting to do professional image editing and general layout work as well.

But yes, I do understand where you are coming from as well: we all have our pet peeves and wishes for Photoline, and we all come from different backgrounds. And there are definitely enough features to be added to last into the next decade ;-)

ps I am aware I contradicted myself before - What I meant to say was that no other general purpose image editing tool I know of has similar tools built-in.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b2

Post by photoken »

Herbert123 wrote:And there are definitely enough features to be added to last into the next decade ;-)
Yep. It all comes down to priorities. As I've said many times before, I have no problem with using different apps that are dedicated to specific areas -- raster editing, vectors, layout, etc. Up until now, that's proven to be the best way to get the best functions for everything, and that's been true since I started designing with computers in 1992. So that's why I'm profoundly unmoved by attempts to get every function for everything into one application.

There's another reason why I'm so intent on having PL concentrate on image editing -- that's what sells. It's a fact of life that designers are a very small segment of the market. Even vector drawing pales in comparison with image editing in terms of the size of the user base. Mark my words, that new Affinity app will keep adding more and more raster editing features just so it can sell more copies.

I think the coming year, with the release of PL19, will be an exciting one for PL. Even now, PL is a far more capable image editor than the two largest competitors in the under $100 USD price range. Both Photoshop Elements and Paintshop Pro have recently released their new versions, and there is a very noticeable disappointment with those new versions, at least from the comments I've seen in the respective user forums. Those users are ripe for picking. PL needs to get some excellent reviews from the major Web sites, and you know those reviewers are going to be concentrating on the image editing side.

So the bottom line is that I'd be OK if PL can ultimately provide the "best in class" features for every conceivable editing, drawing, and layout use. IMO, it should get there by first ruling the world of image editing, then vector drawing, then layout. It's great to keep suggesting enhancements for everything, though -- that's the best way for the developers to get a handle on writing an application that provides real benefits for users.
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Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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Gerhard Huber
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b2

Post by Gerhard Huber »

Herbert123 wrote:Open the attached file, then click once on the group's + sign to open the group in the layer panel. Then click the - sign to close it again: crash!
I don't get a problem here with the latest beta version of PhotoLine. So perhaps your settings cause the problem. Can you send them to me?

Gerhard
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b2

Post by mwenz »

Herbert123 wrote:Actually, it would be an awesome feature - no other design tool I know of can do this. It would be an excellent addition -
Actually, PagePlus has had this feature for quite some time. At least the past 3 versions or so.

I would attach a screen shot...but as I don't have the permissions in this forum, I cannot. But the indicator in PP when something is snapped to a guideline is a pair of red triangles against the guide. Move the guide, the object moves with it.

Mike
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b2

Post by mwenz »

Oops. I also wanted to mention something else about the magnetic guides. Rorohiko mentions this plug-in for ID as an aid to form design. This use is the only usage I have seen this feature in PagePlus be of value.

For the other work I have been hired to do that I would even consider using PL for, like single- and double-sided fliers and double-sided brochures, I cannot see how this magnetic guide feature would be of real-world benefit.

Mike
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b2

Post by ellhel »

mwenz hat geschrieben:
But the indicator in PP when something is snapped to a guideline is a pair of red triangles against the guide. Move the guide, the object moves with it.
Hallo,

im Screenshot sieht man die kleinen roten Pfeile. Wenn man mit der Maus darüberfährt sieht man das "Kettensymbol".
Objekt an Hilfslinie angedockt.jpg
"offen" oder "geschlossen" symbolisiert den Zustand für "abgedockt" oder "angedockt"
Grüße
Helmut
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Bug: H/S layer settings -- target range not retained

Post by photoken »

Win7 x64 SP1
PL 18.90b2 x64

Steps to reproduce
  1. Open an image.
  2. At the bottom of the layer panel, use the Adjustment Layer button to create a Hue/Saturation adjustment layer.
  3. In the H/S dialog, use the eyedropper to select a colour in the image to target.
  4. Change a value, such as the saturation:
    HS saved.png
  5. Click "OK" to close the dialog.
  6. Double-click the H/S layer to re-open the H/S settings.
Result:
The H/S settings have reverted to the defaults, although the previous setting is used on the image:
HS re-open.png
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Re: Bug: H/S layer settings -- target range not retained

Post by bkh »

photoken wrote:Result:
The H/S settings have reverted to the defaults, although the previous setting is used on the image:
HS re-open.png
No, it's just that PL opens the dialogue with the "All" range selected. Try selecting "Red" under "Range". Your settings should be there. (This may be a bit confusing – maybe if the "All" settings are all zero, it should show the first range that has a non-trivial entry?)

Cheers

Burkhard.
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Re: Bug: H/S layer settings -- target range not retained

Post by Martin Huber »

bkh wrote:
photoken wrote:Result:
The H/S settings have reverted to the defaults, although the previous setting is used on the image:
HS re-open.png
No, it's just that PL opens the dialogue with the "All" range selected. Try selecting "Red" under "Range". Your settings should be there. (This may be a bit confusing – maybe if the "All" settings are all zero, it should show the first range that has a non-trivial entry?)
I will see what I can do.

Martin
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Re: Bug: H/S layer settings -- target range not retained

Post by bkh »

Martin Huber wrote:
bkh wrote: (This may be a bit confusing – maybe if the "All" settings are all zero, it should show the first range that has a non-trivial entry?)
I will see what I can do.
… or, maybe even better, just show the range which was used last – in an adjustment layer panel, hue/saturation seems to remember the last range (that is, until you close and re-open the panel).

Burkhard.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b2

Post by ellhel »

Hallo,

wäre es möglich, das man das momentan im Arbeitsbereich geladene Foto in den beiden Bildübersichten (kleine und große) markiert bekommt (mit farbigen Unterstrich oder so ähnlich).
Bei sehr ähnlichen Fotos weiß man dann immer genau welches Bild wirklich geöffnet ist.
Ich habe eigentlich immer die kleine Bildübersicht geöffnet, da lade ich dann per Doppelklick das erste Foto. Im Anschluß klicke ich mich dann aber meistens mit den Befehlen "voriges Bild" & "nächstes Bild" durch die Verzeichnisse.
Wenn ich mich dann dazu entscheide doch wieder ein Bild per Doppelklick aus der Bildübersicht zu laden, weiß ich nie so genau wo ich gerade zuletzt war. Und bei klein eingestellten Vorschaubildern kann ich in der Bildübersicht den Dateinamen ja nicht vollständig lesen. Ich hoffe ich konnte das einigermaßen verständlich rüberbringen. :wink: Mir wäre es auf alle Fälle eine Hilfe.
Hier mal ein kleines Beispiel:
Mit farbigen Dreieck markiert.jpg
Liebe Grüße
Helmut

Edit: Es könnte ja auch einfach der Auswahlrahmen "mitwandern".
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