Neue Testversion 18.90b9

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photoken
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by photoken »

maxwell wrote:
Herbert123 wrote:I agree with Ken on this point: it would be handy to be able to do this.
To apply tools to individual channels, copy the channel into a layer (Tools -> Change Channels) via clipboard, mofify the channel and copy it back.
You have to agree that having the Channels options for the Brighter and Darker tools would be much more intuitive and easier....
Ken
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Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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photoken
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by photoken »

Juan wrote:The variable width is amazing tool but I´m a little afraid that is way too hidden to be discovered easily which can lead to confusion specially for new users
I disagree. The variable width setting is exactly where one would expect it to be -- accessible by double-clicking the line style depiction in the Line Style Editor. This is the same behavior for accessing colour editing, for example.
Juan wrote:I would like ask if is possible to bring it more to the surface and make it available on the canvas, please check this video and see how Inkscape has make it, if this is possible to add it in PL would be great.
That manic video shows how inaccessible and hidden the feature is in Inkscape. Also, creating new "width points" is very much hidden -- nowhere is it obvious that you have to Ctrl+click on an existing "width point" to duplicate it and then drag the duplicate off the original to place it where you want it.

In PL, one can simply use Layout...Vector...Vector Outline (as Eurgail pointed out) to add or subtract points on the path to alter the shape.

Another thing to remember is that PL has the outstanding capability of creating variable width vector lines using pen pressure if one is using a graphics tablet. I don't think any other drawing program on the planet can do that.
Juan wrote:Another advantage of this method is that the length representation of the stroke (vector) is real, not a virtual "representation" of the length of the vector.
It doesn't matter any more, since the latest beta (18.90b9) shows a live preview of the variable width in the main editing window.
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by Juan »

photoken wrote:I disagree. The variable width setting is exactly where one would expect it to be -- accessible by double-clicking the line style depiction in the Line Style Editor. This is the same behavior for accessing colour editing, for example.
Sorry to disagree with you here, let´s count the clicks to accomplish this operation, follow me here.
2 clicks to open the Line Editor +2 open the line pattern +1 Variable width checkbox + 1 drag the window away from the canvas, noticed that the underlying, so +1 to cancel the operation, +1 drag away the Line Style editor, +2 to open the Line pattern AGAIN, +1 Variable width checkbox AGAIN, click ok + click ok AGAIN.
Don´t let me get started if you need to add/modify some nodes, the variable width goes to hell, so what to do?... all those clicks again?
At least 11 clicks in order to create a variable width against what? if PL has another tool which activate the variable width on the canvas where you click on that icon and start modifying the width... I don´t know, but for me 2 clicks is much much less than 11.
Many people suffer of carpal tunnel including myself and the less clicks the better in order to reduce the amount of repetitions and stress on the area in order to accomplish one task.
photoken wrote:That manic video shows how inaccessible and hidden the feature is in Inkscape. Also, creating new "width points" is very much hidden -- nowhere is it obvious that you have to Ctrl+click on an existing "width point" to duplicate it and then drag the duplicate off the original to place it where you want it.

In PL, one can simply use Layout...Vector...Vector Outline (as Eurgail pointed out) to add or subtract points on the path to alter the shape.

Another thing to remember is that PL has the outstanding capability of creating variable width vector lines using pen pressure if one is using a graphics tablet. I don't think any other drawing program on the planet can do that.
You took me waaaaaay to literally here, I´m thinking out of the box on how the line width editor on the canvas can be much better approach.
photoken wrote:It doesn't matter any more, since the latest beta (18.90b9) shows a live preview of the variable width in the main editing window.
Of course it does, you have no idea of the real length of the vector so you have to create the width and then moving it around in order to place it is the right place.

Cheers,
Juan
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by maxwell »

photoken wrote:You have to agree that having the Channels options for the Brighter and Darker tools would be much more intuitive and easier....
The main advantage with respect to "Change Channels" is the option to work non destructive (insert as a new document) and you are able to perform channel arithmetic! Everything can be enhanced, but there's always a danger that the subject at whole becomes more complicated!
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by Martin Huber »

Hoogo wrote:
maxwell wrote:unter Ansicht -> Listen.
Das fand ich wirklich schwer zu finden... "Dokument" erscheint ja bereits als Reiter in den normalen Farbfeldern, aber es war leer und von dort aus nicht zu füllen. Ich finde, die Buttons Plus und Minus gehören dort auch hinein.
Verstehe ich das richtig: Bei dir ist in der Dokumentfarbliste keine "+"-/"-"-Knopf?

Martin
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photoken
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by photoken »

maxwell wrote:
photoken wrote:You have to agree that having the Channels options for the Brighter and Darker tools would be much more intuitive and easier....
The main advantage with respect to "Change Channels" is the option to work non destructive (insert as a new document) and you are able to perform channel arithmetic! Everything can be enhanced, but there's always a danger that the subject at whole becomes more complicated!
If I understand you correctly, once the channel has been changed the original image has been altered destructively, anyway. :?

But, I want to thank you for pointing out the use of "Change Channels". I used it to good effect with one of the lens flares from Experiment 03:
Before:
flare removal before.jpg
After:
flare removal after.jpg
I successively created a layer for each one of the RGB channels, used the Darker tool to even out the flare area and then cut the working layer to the Clipboard to use it in "Change Channels" for the appropriate channel. This test confirmed my idea that being able to work with the Darker (or Brighter) tool directly on an individual image channel is the way to go.... :)

Thanks again!
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Ken
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Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by Herbert123 »

photoken wrote:
Another thing to remember is that PL has the outstanding capability of creating variable width vector lines using pen pressure if one is using a graphics tablet. I don't think any other drawing program on the planet can do that.
Sorry Ken, but way, way back in the nineties, a firm called CreatureHouse developed a tremendously innovative vector drawing tool called "Expression". Its drawing tools, such as the pen and brush, behave like regular bitmap drawing tools, but are actually vectors. And the possibilities of Expression 3.3 leave Photoline's variable width vector strokes in the dust. There is just no comparison. The variable width could be easily controlled with the mouse on the canvas as well.

Microsoft was very impressed, and bought CreatureHouse, and at some point made Expression 3.3 freely downloadable for both Mac and PC. http://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/download ... x?id=31249

Then MS built their own design application: Expression Design, which was developed on top of CreatureHouse's foundations.

Unfortunately, MS stopped developing Expression Design, but it is still a quite powerful vector drawing tool. And it is also still available as a free licensed download: http://www.microsoft.com/expression/eng/

And another contender is ClipStudio, or Anime Studio 5: that application also supports full Wacom pressure sensitive vector strokes - it also leaves Photoline in the dust. Actually, the feel of drawing and its responsiveness, as well as the quality of both the bitmap and vector pen and brushes in ClipStudio, pretty much (arguably) best every other drawing application on the market. It really is that good. Nowadays I prefer to do my pencil and ink work in ClipStudio, and combine it with Krita. And Photoline, of course.

To be entirely honest, I find Photoline's variable width pen tool rather primitive and hard to use compared to the (stiff) competition out there. Download the free Expression 4.4, and give a try to see what I mean.

Nothing bad about Photoline, but I must be realistic. If we could get even half of the options of Expression's vector stroke options in Photoline, I would be a very happy chappy indeed.
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photoken
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by photoken »

Herbert123 wrote:[Nothing bad about Photoline, but I must be realistic. If we could get even half of the options of Expression's vector stroke options in Photoline, I would be a very happy chappy indeed.
Hee, heee! I knew you would correct me on this one! :D You're much more familiar with the drawing programs out there than I am, so thanks for letting me know what to check out.
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by Herbert123 »

photoken wrote:
Herbert123 wrote:[Nothing bad about Photoline, but I must be realistic. If we could get even half of the options of Expression's vector stroke options in Photoline, I would be a very happy chappy indeed.
Hee, heee! I knew you would correct me on this one! :D You're much more familiar with the drawing programs out there than I am, so thanks for letting me know what to check out.
Yeah, sorry about that :mrgreen:

But really, try Expression 4.4. It is missing some neat features from Expression 3.3, but the stroke engine is really quite impressive. I wish Photoline would have a similar stroke options.

Btw, I do like the variable width option. It is just that the current implementation and GUI remind me of how a programmer would solve this problem! A creative mind (artist) would want easy to use direct manipulation of the variable thickness on the canvas - not hidden away in an obscure modal dialog.

This, I feel, also touches other parts of Photoline's interface. Most filter and effect operations in Photoline would benefit from direct on-canvas manipulations, working together with a non-model parameter/properties panel that adapts to the presented context. The modal dialogues approach is a tad old-fashioned, and feels very clunky.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by Hoogo »

Martin Huber wrote:Verstehe ich das richtig: Bei dir ist in der Dokumentfarbliste keine "+"-/"-"-Knopf?
Doch doch, in der Dokumentenfarbliste (dem eigenen Fenster) sind die Knöpfe. In den Popups der normalen Farbauswahlfelder sind aber keine. Dort findet sich dann ein leerer Doumentenreiter ohne eine Möglichkeit, ihn mit irgendwas zu füllen.
Warum ist das Popup überhaupt in den Möglichkeiten eingeschränkter als das Fensterchen für die Farbliste?
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by bkh »

Habt ihr an der Arbeitsebene "Graumixer" etwas geändert? Bei mir laufen schnell die Schatten zu, man sieht den Effekt auch, wenn man sie auf einen Graukeil anwendet (obere Bildhälfte), und zwar egal, was ich in den Voreinstelllungen als Grauprofil einstelle ("System" oder Generic Grey 2.2 oder "None"):
grey mixer.png
In der PL 18.53 tritt der Effekt nicht auf.

L.G.

Burkhard.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by kopias »

Martin Huber wrote: Der Hauptgrund für die Unterstützung von Little CMS ist für die Anwender unter Linux/Wine,
Martin
Is there any limitations (RAM limit) or known performance drops by running photoline via Wine?
Wich linuxos/wine version you recommend (was tested)?

Photoline is single most important app (printing) and is a major stopper for me to switch compleatly to linux.

btw. the ui response drop (win7x64) with cr2 files that was present on early betas is compleatly gone (even better than 18.50?)
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by Gerhard Huber »

kopias wrote:Is there any limitations (RAM limit) or known performance drops by running photoline via Wine?
there is no known RAM limit. But the performance seams to be a little lower here, but I tested under VMWare only.
kopias wrote:Wich linuxos/wine version you recommend (was tested)?
I installed a fresh Ubuntu 14.04, installed Wine and ran PhotoLine. No more settings.

Gerhard
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by gmhofmann »

Hi kopias,

I work with Ubuntu 13.04/14.04 LTS/ WINE und PhotoLine for nearly 2 years.
The old PC has only 2 GB RAM but it works fine.
It could be necessary to open winecfg und to define the windows version, I work with the setting "Vista".
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Gerhard Huber
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by Gerhard Huber »

gmhofmann wrote:I work with the setting "Vista".
I tried Win 7 and Win 8, both was OK.

Gerhard