Neue Testversion 18.90b12

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ellhel
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b12

Post by ellhel »

photoken wrote:As a few users have commented, direct clicking and dragging to change values in adjustment boxes is a bad idea. Making a bad idea more complicated doesn't help at all.
Hi,

if you have a choice, what's so complicated?
Use it or leave it as it is.
I do not understand why the previously unused middle mouse button to be complicated.
((if you've read this have mercy. I translate with google :wink: )
So far it's just an idea.

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Helmut
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Herbert123
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b12

Post by Herbert123 »

Come to think of it, the middle mouse button is used to pan the view in Photoline (which is great), and it would indeed seem consistent when we could use the same middle mouse button to "pan" the values for numeric input fields.

Although I am aware that this can already be achieved by pressing down <ctrl> and left mouse dragging, I certainly would not mind if the middle mouse button performs the same function, but without the need for a modifier key.

The reason? I mostly work with my Wacom tablet, and often with my hands off the keyboard. In Photoline, I am unable to adjust a layer's opacity setting quickly and precisely without being forced to grab the keyboard. Quite inconvenient at times. Other applications provide either a slider to slide or a knob to turn - Photoline is the only design/graphics app in which I cannot change the opacity or other values with precision and speed with ONLY my Wacom tablet. Clicking those finicky tiny up and down arrow buttons are not a solution to a Wacom user - hard to click, and very cumbersome.

So, please DO allow the middle mouse button to act as a basic method to change all the values throughout Photoline.
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photoken
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b12

Post by photoken »

Herbert123 wrote: I mostly work with my Wacom tablet,
??
My Wacom Intuous tablet has buttons, one of which is the Ctrl key....,
Ken
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Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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kopias
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b12

Post by kopias »

Airbrush with lower intensity (1-4%) color of a brush in never achieved:

Try paint pure white on pure black image with airbrush intensity of 1% and see You will never paint pure white.

P.S.
I would suggest to merge airbrush with paint brush by adding slider to it:
Intensity slider - will control airbrush
transparency slide - max transparency that brush can achieve
so at intensity slider = 100% the brush will behave like current paint brush
the naming could be better - just wanted propose some concept

P.S.2
This is great release - Thanks for Your great work.

Edit:
Forgot to add: Win7x64
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b12

Post by JulianZI »

ich habe immer noch (oder wieder) das Problem, dass u.a. nach Copy&Paste das aktive Fenster den Fokus verliert und damit das Verschieben der aktuellen Ebene mit den Cursor Tasten nicht möglich ist.

Das passiert nur, wenn der Arbeitsebenendialog geöffnet ist, dann aber auch bereits wenn man auf ein Objekt klickt. Anscheinend zieht der Arbeitsebenedialog den Fokus an sich sobald Eigenschaften sich ändern - das ganze under Windows.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b12

Post by JulianZI »

Wieso ist es eigentlich nicht möglich, mehrere selektierte Objekte "als Gruppe" zu skalieren, rotieren etc?

Ich vermute die Schwierigkeit liegt darin, dass all diese Änderungen virtuell passieren, also nur als Transformations Eigenschaft der jeweiligen Ebene zugewiesen werden. Nichtsdestotrotz ist es aber möglich eine Gruppe zu bilden, die Änderung anzuwenden und dann die Gruppe wieder aufzulösen. Beim Auflösen werden offenbar alle Transformationen in alle Ebenen gerechnet. Wenn PL also intern eine temporäre Gruppe bilden würde, müsste es doch eigentlich gehen.

Die Funktion ist deshalb so wichtig, wie das Gruppen Bildern die Reihenfolge sowie die Schachtelung der Ebenen ändert. Es ist also nicht möglich zwei Ebenen zu gruppieren wenn eine der Ebene bereits Teil einer anderen Gruppe ist, ohne dass die neue Gruppe eine Untergruppe wird.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b12

Post by Herbert123 »

I am experiencing a number of odd behaviours in the last few betas:

1) at times I cannot move a specific layer in the layer stack. It seems stuck, and when I try to drag it up or down, Windows beeps, and Photoline refuses to allow me to drag that layer. Other layers still work, though - so I can drag those around in the layer panel. But that single one will not budge.

2) clicking (and especially right-mouse clicking) on the lower part of the tool settings hides parts or all of the controls of the tools settings.

3) same problem as Julian: at times the layer loses focus, and I cannot move the layer with the cursor keys. I then have to actively click the main window first, before I can move the layer with the cursor keys

4) it is impossible to move a selected layer that lies behind another one with the mouse. When I try to drag it, it selects the top one. I understand the switch to click & drag (which is good), but there should be an option built into PL to somehow be able to prevent this from happening.

5) dragging layers quickly across the canvas causes erratic laggy behaviour now - the dragging occurs in large steps, and only be slowing down a lot can this be avoided. I noticed the readout at the top right (display x and y pos, etc.) starts flickering white as well, as if Photoline cannot keep up with the movement.

As for (5) it would be more useful to display the position values where the mouse cursor is. Currently the user is forced to move the eyes to to parts of the screen (the actual layer, and the changing values at the far bottom right).

6) clicking on a tool in the toolbox multiple times (or with right mouse button) hides the tool controls at the bottom of the toolbox. It's erratic in behaviour as well.

7) buttons are cut off for selection marquee tool. I can no longer reach golden ratio option.

I made a small video demonstrating most these issues in action: http://www.estructor.altervista.org/links/bugs.mp4

Currently I am running a GTX 590 from Nvidia due to burned out AMD 7970.
Last edited by Herbert123 on Mon 13 Apr 2015 00:35, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b12

Post by Herbert123 »

JulianZI wrote:Wieso ist es eigentlich nicht möglich, mehrere selektierte Objekte "als Gruppe" zu skalieren, rotieren etc?

Die Funktion ist deshalb so wichtig, wie das Gruppen Bildern die Reihenfolge sowie die Schachtelung der Ebenen ändert. Es ist also nicht möglich zwei Ebenen zu gruppieren wenn eine der Ebene bereits Teil einer anderen Gruppe ist, ohne dass die neue Gruppe eine Untergruppe wird.
+1 I agree, it is very frustrating at times indeed, especially when working with layouts which may have many layers spread out over different groups and such. I often just do not have the option to group objects together while I still wish to transform those as a group of selected objects. Currently I am forced to perform the scaling one by one.

Transforming unrelated objects as a group is actually a quite essential feature. Photoline is the only design application I am aware of that lacks this option.
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Bug: Display problems with tool selections and options

Post by photoken »

Win7 x64 SP1
PL 18.90b12 x64
Herbert123 wrote:
2) clicking (and especially right-mouse clicking) on the lower part of the tool settings hides parts or all of the controls of the tools settings.
Same here when right-clicking on the lower part of the tool settings panel -- all the controls vanish. If the cursor is moved over the top area (where the controls should be), the controls are partially redrawn under the cursor:
tool settings display.png
Left-clicking the lower part of the tool settings panel restores all the controls.
Herbert123 wrote: 6) clicking on a tool in the toolbox multiple times (or with right mouse button) hides the tool controls at the bottom of the toolbox. It's erratic in behaviour as well.
Right-clicking on a tool in the toolbox to display the context menu to select the other tools under the active tool does hide the controls at the bottom of the toolbox, but that is only until a tool is selected from the context menu. Then the controls at the bottom of the toolbox are restored. Not a problem, as far as I'm concerned.

A far more sever problem occurs with the marquee options when a large 16-bit TIF image is open. I'll file that as a separate bug report.
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Bug: Inappropriate marquee options

Post by photoken »

Win7 x64 SP1
PL 18.90b12 x64

The Rectangle Lasso tool has two buttons in its Tool Options -- "Three Parts" and "Golden Cut".

However, the Circle Lasso, and the Horizontal Lasso Line, and the Vertical Lasso Column also have those two buttons in their options even though those options are not used for the tools.

Those two buttons should not be displayed when those three tools are selected (as is the behavior for the Free Lasso, Automatic Lasso and Lasso from Curves and Lines tools).
Ken
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Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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Re: Bug: Display problems with tool selections and options

Post by photoken »

photoken wrote:A far more sever problem occurs with the marquee options when a large 16-bit TIF image is open. I'll file that as a separate bug report.
Update: I cannot consistently reproduce the problem. It has only occurred with a 16-bit TIF image generated from a RAW file by RawTherapee. No problem with a 16-bit TIF image generated from a RAW image by PL. ExifTool reports a warning about a bad format for EXIF data with that RawTherapee image, so this might in fact be a RawTherapee problem....

I'll need to do more testing.
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Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b12

Post by photoken »

Herbert123 wrote: 4) it is impossible to move a selected layer that lies behind another one with the mouse. When I try to drag it, it selects the top one. I understand the switch to click & drag (which is good), but there should be an option built into PL to somehow be able to prevent this from happening.
Works fine, here on Win7 x64. Without having "Deep Selection" enabled, single-clicking with the LMB will cycle through the layers (having opaque pixels) beneath the cursor, and I can then move the selected layer.

Do you have something funky going on with the layers, such as burying them in groups and subgroups?
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b12

Post by photoken »

Herbert123 wrote:
5) dragging layers quickly across the canvas causes erratic laggy behaviour now - the dragging occurs in large steps, and only be slowing down a lot can this be avoided. I noticed the readout at the top right (display x and y pos, etc.) starts flickering white as well, as if Photoline cannot keep up with the movement.
Again, I'm not noticing that here on my notebook PC (with a 3+ year-old NVIDIA graphics chip). I can continuously move the cursor erratically all over the main editing window as fast as I can, and the layer keeps up with the cursor without any lag.
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b12

Post by Martin Huber »

photoken wrote:
Herbert123 wrote: 4) it is impossible to move a selected layer that lies behind another one with the mouse. When I try to drag it, it selects the top one. I understand the switch to click & drag (which is good), but there should be an option built into PL to somehow be able to prevent this from happening.
Works fine, here on Win7 x64. Without having "Deep Selection" enabled, single-clicking with the LMB will cycle through the layers (having opaque pixels) beneath the cursor, and I can then move the selected layer.
No, Herbert123 is right. If a layer is completely covered by other layers, it can't be moved by mouse, because the mouse click, that should start moving, will select the visible layer.

That is a fundamental problem of click&drag, and at least my old version of Illustrator is showing the same behavior.

Aside from an additional option I see no solution. But IMO this additional option is not a solution but a hack:
- The user selects a layer and tries to move it. It doesn't work, and the user is annoyed.
- Most users won't find the option to modify the behavior.
- A small percentage of the users will search in the manual for a solution and might find the relevant option.
- Another small percentage will ask in the forum.
- Those who found the option will probably not turn it off afterwards. In fact, the next time they want to use click&drag most will have forgotten its existence and that they have turned it on. And so the game begins from the start.

Martin
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b12

Post by bkh »

Martin Huber wrote:No, Herbert123 is right. If a layer is completely covered by other layers, it can't be moved by mouse, because the mouse click, that should start moving, will select the visible layer.
Surprisingly, if I have a stack of three layers of the same size, I can move the topmost and the middle layer but not the bottom layer. If one of the first two layers is selected, I can drag them, or else the mouse-up event selects the next layer. The behaviour is different for the bottom layer: it seems that the mouse-down event already selects the next (i. e., the top) layer. Wouldn't it be possible to make the bottom layer behave like the middle one? (If the bottom layer is the background layer in image mode and not transparent, the current behaviour seems fine – this may explain what photoken wrote.)

Cheers

Burkhard.