Don't understand:Why Drag to move related to transparency

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jw2004
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Don't understand:Why Drag to move related to transparency

Post by jw2004 »

Im PL, if we want to drag and move a layer, you should click the layer's non transparent area and drag the layer.
the mouse cursor will not change to move if you click a transparent area, it's not like the behaviar of almost all the other software.
In PS, the cursor change to move when mouse point is in the range of a object.
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Hoogo
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Re: Don't understand:Why Drag to move related to transparency

Post by Hoogo »

Do you use the latest official version, or do you use the latest beta?
In the beta, the behavior is just as you desire.
I'd have to check the latest official version, but if I remember correctly, you could click and drag anywhere in the layer to move it, transparency didn't matter.
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jw2004
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Re: Don't understand:Why Drag to move related to transparency

Post by jw2004 »

I use PL 18.90B12 x64 in Win7 64
Below has two capture picture, the first picture, I move the mouse to non transparent area, the second I move the mouse to transpaent area.
2015-04-14_13h45_19.png
2015-04-14_13h45_26.png
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Hoogo
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Re: Don't understand:Why Drag to move related to transparency

Post by Hoogo »

It's a new behavior, I'm not too sure about it. But I like it so far.

-Single click: Selects the layer of the pixel that is visible at that point. Nothing happens if there is full transparency there.
-Click and drag: Select and move. If you click on a fully transparent pixel, then you start a frame to select multiple layers.

EDIT:
Saw your screenshots now.
Seems the cursor shows what click & drag would do. If you get the move arrow, you will move. If you get the simple arrow, then you will select multiple layers.
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jw2004
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Re: Don't understand:Why Drag to move related to transparency

Post by jw2004 »

Drag and move related to transparency may be the PL's special behaviar, but it's not a good behaviar for me,

when my document include many layer, with complex transparency relation, then I can hardly drag the correct layer, because the operation is determined by the all the layer's transparency, It's very easy to misoperation.

I think the Photoshop is right, I drag the selected object and move, no matter it's content's transparency. it's simple and no misoperation.
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Eurgail
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Re: Don't understand:Why Drag to move related to transparency

Post by Eurgail »

That's not true. In Photoshop you have the automatic selection option, which works exactly as PhotoLine's "new" behaviour but without the useful function of getting the next layer at the point by just clicking a second time.
There was a lot of discussion in the past and the new way has been wished a lot. A two options solution was disclined by the developers.
I agree with you, that for picture editing the old way is sometimes more comfortable, but since PhotoLine does also illustration and desktop publishing the new way is the better compromise.
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Re: Don't understand:Why Drag to move related to transparency

Post by jw2004 »

I agree PL's select behavior.

But I'm talking about the dragging by mouse:
I select a layer (click in layer list or click in picture), then there's no way to move the layer by mouse, because the mouse point don't change to move point anywhere in the layer's frame. It's really inconvenient for me.

sometimes the upper layer is semi transparent and overlay the below layer, then you can see the below layer and select below layer, but you can't move the below layer by mouse.
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Re: Don't understand:Why Drag to move related to transparency

Post by Eurgail »

jw2004 wrote:I agree PL's select behavior.

But I'm talking about the dragging by mouse:
I select a layer (click in layer list or click in picture), then there's no way to move the layer by mouse, because the mouse point don't change to move point anywhere in the layer's frame. It's really inconvenient for me.
I don't get your problem:
You can't select a layer below a semi transparent layer for moving with mouse with one click (neither in the layers panel nor in the document window). The only way to get this is to click on the point, where you want to drag the desired layer (just a single click, no move, raise your finger and wait a moment: the next layer will be selected :-)) and do it again and again until the target layer is selected and then you can drag and move it as long as you don't change the selection conditions in any way.
jw2004 wrote:sometimes the upper layer is semi transparent and overlay the below layer, then you can see the below layer and select below layer, but you can't move the below layer by mouse.
If you have selected the lower layer in the layer panel you are right. Otherweise it works for me. (See above)


P.S.: But there seems to be a missbehaviour for the deepest layer: it can't be moved the way I described, somehow. So if you try, use at least three layers for example. You shouldn't have problems with the middle layer(s).
I will report this.
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Re: Don't understand:Why Drag to move related to transparency

Post by jw2004 »

There a simple test file, I can't move the circle layer with mouse.

It seems than if the layer is a simple layer without any adjustment layer or mask, Alt + click works, else you can't move the layer with mouse.
cantmove.pld
2015-04-26_11h21_19.png
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photoken
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Re: Don't understand:Why Drag to move related to transparency

Post by photoken »

FWIW, I found a way to move that circle layer:
  1. Select the circle layer in the layer panel, right-click and choose "Group Marked Layers":
    grouped layer.png
  2. In the settings panel for the Move tool, enable the "Deep Selection" mode.
When the circle layer group is activated by clicking on the parent layer, the Move tool's cursor will change to a "move" icon in the main editing window and you can move the layer group.
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jw2004
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Re: Don't understand:Why Drag to move related to transparency

Post by jw2004 »

photoken wrote:FWIW, I found a way to move that circle layer:
  1. Select the circle layer in the layer panel, right-click and choose "Group Marked Layers":
    grouped layer.png
  2. In the settings panel for the Move tool, enable the "Deep Selection" mode.
When the circle layer group is activated by clicking on the parent layer, the Move tool's cursor will change to a "move" icon in the main editing window and you can move the layer group.


It's too complex, so PL must support the simplest way to move layer just like Photoshop and Coreldraw and etc.

btw: group operation could generate some implicate affect. eg: make the document type convert from picture mode to document mode automatic.
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Re: Don't understand:Why Drag to move related to transparency

Post by photoken »

jw2004 wrote: It's too complex, so PL must support the simplest way to move layer just like Photoshop and Coreldraw and etc.
It also works well. The developers will have to comment on why this is so....

Not saying that there might not be a better way, but you need to stop treating Photoshop and Illustrator and CorelDraw as if they were the ultimate standards for everything -- sometimes the functionality of PL means that the simplest way of doing something is not a matter of "must" do it that way.
jw2004 wrote:btw: group operation could generate some implicate affect. eg: make the document type convert from picture mode to document mode automatic.
I don't think so.
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Re: Don't understand:Why Drag to move related to transparency

Post by ellhel »

Hi,

no Problem here. I just hold the left Mousebutton down and use the "down arrow" key three times.
Now i click again and move the circle layer. (PL Help 6.2.1 "the layer tool")

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Helmut
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Martin Stricker
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Re: Don't understand:Why Drag to move related to transparency

Post by Martin Stricker »

ellhel wrote: no Problem here. I just hold the left Mousebutton down and use the "down arrow" key three times.
Now i click again and move the circle layer. (PL Help 6.2.1 "the layer tool")
Looks nice, but if you have lots of layers it's unpractical.
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Re: Don't understand:Why Drag to move related to transparency

Post by bkh »

jw2004 wrote:There a simple test file, I can't move the circle layer with mouse.

It seems than if the layer is a simple layer without any adjustment layer or mask, Alt + click works, else you can't move the layer with mouse.
Doens't have to do with the layer mask – this is similar to http://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.ph ... 060#p34060 – currently PL doesn't handle the lowest visible layer correctly. Put another layer underneath, and dragging will work as expected. Unfortunately, this still hasn't been fixed in PL b13.

Cheers

Burkhard.
Last edited by bkh on Mon 27 Apr 2015 14:37, edited 1 time in total.