Distort tool make picture error

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jw2004
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Distort tool make picture error

Post by jw2004 »

I create a image with some transparent area, then distort it. after doing that, the transparence information is wrong

when I right click the layer, and click "Alpha to Mask" or "Channel to selection", the result was wrong
PLD file : http://pan.baidu.com/s/1c0o5WJI
1. orginal file
2015-04-26_15h27_31.jpg
2. alpha to mask
2015-04-26_15h28_09.jpg
3. channel to selection
2015-04-26_15h28_31.jpg
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Eurgail
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Re: Distort tool make picture error

Post by Eurgail »

Oh, how did you create this?

Edit: There seems to be deeper problems in the example document: On the map the background is black, but it's obviously transparent and if the layer gets fixed, everything but the map is fine. =-O
I didn't find a way to reproduce it.
bkh
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Re: Distort tool make picture error

Post by bkh »

Eurgail wrote:Edit: There seems to be deeper problems in the example document: On the map the background is black, but it's obviously transparent and if the layer gets fixed, everything but the map is fine. =-O
I didn't find a way to reproduce it.
I don't think there is a problem in the document – I can easily reproduce the behaviour, even with a very simple distortion. The selection is simply created from the undistorted image. As you wrote, fixing the layer (or a copy) and taking the selection from there is a workaround.

As far as I can see, "Map" doesn't show transparencies at all – again, this happens with a new document as well.

Cheers

Burkhard.
Eurgail
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Re: Distort tool make picture error

Post by Eurgail »

I was crazy! I read Distort and understood Liquify. Shame on me. O-)
Of course, I can reproduce the behaviour with the Distort tool. And it's not a problem, neither with the document nor with PhotoLine. :-)

@jw2004: Watch the layer attributes. There you can find the Distort attribute: The Distort tool works as an attribute to the layer, so the source layer is unchanged (until you fix it). The behaviour, you don't understand, is the non-destructive workflow of PhotoLine's layer attributes. All this happens also with the menu items effect -> distort.
So, if you distorted a layer (non-destructive) and ask PhotoLine to get the alpha channel, you get the unchanged version of it, as Burkhard worte.
Eurgail
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Re: Distort tool make picture error

Post by Eurgail »

bkh wrote:As far as I can see, "Map" doesn't show transparencies at all – again, this happens with a new document as well.
Absolutely, and for transparent background the map shows always black.
jw2004
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Re: Distort tool make picture error

Post by jw2004 »

Yes, distort can close, and things working right, but as my intuition, It's not my want.
In this case, I want distort the layer, and get a distorted lasso, PL doesn't get the result.
If you want get the distorted lasso, you should fix the layer, then the original layer is changed and can't restore anymore, this violate the non-destructive workflow.

Besides, if a layer has an adjustment layer or a mask, "channel to selection" use the layer's final image with adjustment layer and mask effect, why the distort function is the exception?

so I don't think it's a good behavior.
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Eurgail
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Re: Distort tool make picture error

Post by Eurgail »

While working layers are own layers, that render the layers they are put on to pixel graphics, the distort function is an attribute of a layer (see perspective distortion or rotation or also scaling). One advantage is that vector layers are saved.
I understood the distort function more from an object based thinking as one can find it illustration software.
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ellhel
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Re: Distort tool make picture error

Post by ellhel »

If you want get the distorted lasso, you should fix the layer, then the original layer is changed and can't restore anymore, this violate the non-destructive workflow.......
....just duplicate the layer and get the "Alpha" from this new layer. A few mouse clicks more, but you can certainly live with.

regards
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jw2004
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Re: Distort tool make picture error

Post by jw2004 »

Eurgail wrote:While working layers are own layers, that render the layers they are put on to pixel graphics, the distort function is an attribute of a layer (see perspective distortion or rotation or also scaling). One advantage is that vector layers are saved.
I understood the distort function more from an object based thinking as one can find it illustration software.

For normal users, they don't matter the distort is property or ajustment layer, they only need to know it can change the host layer, and the host layer change it's appearance, and use the last appearance as the next action's input. But the distort function violate the normal rule.

the image actually handled is not the same as we seen will only make puzzle.
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bkh
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Re: Distort tool make picture error

Post by bkh »

Eurgail wrote:There you can find the Distort attribute: The Distort tool works as an attribute to the layer, so the source layer is unchanged (until you fix it). The behaviour, you don't understand, is the non-destructive workflow of PhotoLine's layer attributes. All this happens also with the menu items effect -> distort.
All the other distortion effects in PL give distorted masks in PL, so I guess that the same should be true for the (relatively new) distortion tool. I guess that this is just an oversight, and will be fixed soon.

Cheers

Burkhard.
Eurgail
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Re: Distort tool make picture error

Post by Eurgail »

For RGB layers (for vector layers everything works fine; also the distortion tool), there is only the Outline Warping effect available and in my tests (created a circle and converted it to RGB), there are also missbehaviours, if i tried to use the alpha separately.
So, I guess, using distortion for image layers is a special case with limitations at all.
bkh
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Re: Distort tool make picture error

Post by bkh »

Eurgail wrote:For RGB layers (for vector layers everything works fine; also the distortion tool), there is only the Outline Warping effect available […]
No, there's also scaling, shearing, perspective correction for all of which the mask is distorted as well.
Eurgail wrote:[…] and in my tests (created a circle and converted it to RGB), there are also missbehaviours, if i tried to use the alpha separately.
"Outline Warping" is a special case of layer distortion (you can edit the distortion using the Distortion tool), so no surprise. (Btw., masks work as expected if either is applied to a vector shape).
Eurgail wrote:So, I guess, using distortion for image layers is a special case with limitations at all.
I can't see an obvious reason for this "special case", so imo this should be fixed.

Btw., also copying with a rectangle lasso and painting on a distorted layer doesn't work as expected – probably the painting cursor would need to be distorted as well (can this be done fast enough?)

Cheers

Burkhard.
Eurgail
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Re: Distort tool make picture error

Post by Eurgail »

bkh wrote:"Outline Warping" is a special case of layer distortion (you can edit the distortion using the Distortion tool), so no surprise. (Btw., masks work as expected if either is applied to a vector shape).

Btw., also copying with a rectangle lasso and painting on a distorted layer doesn't work as expected – probably the painting cursor would need to be distorted as well (can this be done fast enough?)
You are right. I can't see a reason for a special case, too. I just watched it from the Photoshop's smart object point of view, where a lot of operations are simply not allowed. So, I didn't treat this all as a bug.
So, of course, it would be more intuitive, if it works like what you see is what you use, but I never really wondered, that it doesn't.
Martin Huber
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Re: Distort tool make picture error

Post by Martin Huber »

bkh wrote:
Eurgail wrote:So, I guess, using distortion for image layers is a special case with limitations at all.
I can't see an obvious reason for this "special case", so imo this should be fixed.
While it is possible to create a mask based on a distorted image, the other way round (converting a undistorted mask to a distorted image) is not possible in the general case (i.e. if there are overlappings).
bkh wrote:Btw., also copying with a rectangle lasso and painting on a distorted layer doesn't work as expected – probably the painting cursor would need to be distorted as well (can this be done fast enough?)
This would be a lot of work and wouldn't work without problems in the general case. So I will block most operations on distorted images.

Martin
Eurgail
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Re: Distort tool make picture error

Post by Eurgail »

Perhaps, a kind of sign (the distort tool sign near the name or something?) in the layer panel would be nice, then? Then, it is clearly visible, that this layer (or group) can't be treated as others.

Copying with rectangle lasso works fine here. I wouldn't limit this. What does happen in your test, Burkhard?