Neue Testversion 19.40b9

[Martin Stricker]

Bei mir geht das. Ein Punkt der ausgewählt (also ausgefüllt) ist, kann mit Entf. gelöscht werden.

Bei mir gehts leider nicht.

[photoken]

I don't like the new behaviour of a LMB double-click no longer opening the adjustment layer's dialog.

Having to use Shift+double-click to open the dialog adds needless complexity.

[Eurgail]

I don't like the new behaviour of a LMB double-click no longer opening the adjustment layer's dialog.

Having to use Shift+double-click to open the dialog adds needless complexity.

Why don't you like the adjustment layer's panel?

To be honest: at first, i was torn, but on the other hand, it's more consistent with the overall behaviour of PhotoLine now, no functions are missing, it is nearer to stack filters in an adjustment layer and in the end you can close the panel like the dialog.

[Herbert123]

A small request now that you are working on improving the adjustment dialogs: could you please make the modal curve editor dialog, which appears when the user double-clicks on one of the channels, scalable? At times I require very precise adjustments in the curves, and it would be extremely helpful if we could scale that dialog to an arbitrary size in order to work with a larger curve editor.

I will make this.

Awesome! No, really - that is great.

[Herbert123]

I don't like the new behaviour of a LMB double-click no longer opening the adjustment layer's dialog.

Having to use Shift+double-click to open the dialog adds needless complexity.

Initially I felt the same as you. However, it does make a bit more sense: double-click now opens the adjustment layer panel, just like double-clicking a layer will open the layer properties.

I still do very much like the dialog as well, though. The shift-click and context menu options are good enough for me. I realize now that I often double-clicked the layer by accident, and opened the modal dialog when I did not need it. It's become a more conscious action now, which I kinda like.

[photoken]

I don't like the new behaviour of a LMB double-click no longer opening the adjustment layer's dialog.

Having to use Shift+double-click to open the dialog adds needless complexity.

Initially I felt the same as you. However, it does make a bit more sense: double-click now opens the adjustment layer panel, just like double-clicking a layer will open the layer properties.

and

Why don't you like the adjustment layer's panel?

Using the adjustment panel does not make any sense for me for two reasons:

• Here's the entire docking area side of my PL layout:
  dock panel.png
  This is on a high-resolution notebook display, and I want to maximise the area for the two open (and most-used) panels: the Tool Settings and the Layers. (I can see 13.5 layers without having to scroll.) Double-clicking now on an adjustment layer opens that Adjustment Layer tab, uselessly extending it below the bottom of the program window.
  
  I could move the Adjustment Layer tab into the same panel as the Layers tab, but that would screw up the logic of my panel organization to no great benefit.
• I only use the Adjustment Layer tab for RAW images, where it makes sense to cluster a large number of adjustment settings into one layer for the sake of visual sanity in the Layers tab.
• The Adjustment Layer tab's settings are too small for most of my work when it's docked as I have it. It's much better to use the individual adjustment layer dialog, which is a nice, large size.

OK, so that was three reasons....

[Juan]

I don't like the new behaviour of a LMB double-click no longer opening the adjustment layer's dialog.

Having to use Shift+double-click to open the dialog adds needless complexity.

Agree with you, it should be the opposite, double click opens the dialog, and shift+double click opens the panel.

Cheers,
Juan

[Herbert123]

Using the adjustment panel does not make any sense for me for two reasons:

• Here's the entire docking area side of my PL layout:
  dock panel.png
  This is on a high-resolution notebook display, and I want to maximise the area for the two open (and most-used) panels: the Tool Settings and the Layers. (I can see 13.5 layers without having to scroll.) Double-clicking now on an adjustment layer opens that Adjustment Layer tab, uselessly extending it below the bottom of the program window.
  
  I could move the Adjustment Layer tab into the same panel as the Layers tab, but that would screw up the logic of my panel organization to no great benefit.
• I only use the Adjustment Layer tab for RAW images, where it makes sense to cluster a large number of adjustment settings into one layer for the sake of visual sanity in the Layers tab.
• The Adjustment Layer tab's settings are too small for most of my work when it's docked as I have it. It's much better to use the individual adjustment layer dialog, which is a nice, large size.

OK, so that was three reasons....

Ah, that makes sense, seeing that you work on a notebook. I work on a three screen desktop setup with two large 27inch high resolution monitors (not yet 4k), which allows me to have two panel columns side by side easily. So I have the layer properties and adjustment layer panels open at all time.

I use those two at least as much as the tool settings, so I keep them open.

On smaller screens I found it to be somewhat cramped indeed On screens like that I collapse panels like the adjustment panel, and place them near the top. A simple click on the tab opens it, and when I am finished making the adjustments, I click the tab once more to close it.

At time I think it would be useful if tabs could be snapped in a similar fashion such as tool bars, but as a button, and when the button is clicked the panel drops down.

[photoken]

Ah, that makes sense, seeing that you work on a notebook. I work on a three screen desktop setup with two large 27inch high resolution monitors (not yet 4k), which allows me to have two panel columns side by side easily. So I have the layer properties and adjustment layer panels open at all time.

Yeah, the available screen area makes a big difference when customizing the program's interface.

At time I think it would be useful if tabs could be snapped in a similar fashion such as tool bars, but as a button, and when the button is clicked the panel drops down.

Well, the tabs can sort of be snapped -- I've moved tabs into different panels that I've docked and the tabs kind of work the way you describe. I really like having that capability in PL.

But I understand your point about snapping. I've been thinking recently about auto-hide features for the various tabs and panels. In theory, I really like having auto-hide on mouseover/mouseleave for tabs & panels, etc., but in practice there's some "gotchas".

Visual Studio does the auto-hide brilliantly, but PaintShopPro's auto-hide isn't so good in practice. Illustrator CS5 is sort of in-between those two -- it's not quite an auto-hide, and most of the time it's implementation is great, but there are times when it's counter-productive. After thinking about this for a while, I realized that, for me on a notebook screen, the problem is with the opened tab/panel obscuring part of the image I'm working on. In other words, with Visual Studio you're editing a text file and when you expand a VS tab, the entire docking area opens and the text area shrinks to accommodate that so you never have your text hidden by an opened tab/panel. With PSP and AI, those tabs/panels simply open over the top of the editing image and I don't like having part of my image hidden by them.

So, all in all, if PL had an auto-hide for the entire docking area that might be a nice enhancement. What do you think? Of course, my comments relate to the limited screen area of a notebook, so the concerns might be different for your setup....

[Herbert123]

@Ken: Perhaps a auto-collapsible panel area could be implemented. Hover the mouse over that area, and the panels slide in quickly. On a smaller screen this would be quite handy.

Work in the view, move the mouse cursor to the edge, panel slides in. Edit in the panels, then move the mouse cursor back in the main view, and the panel slides out. Important here would be that this slide-in panel area would be layered on top of the main view area, instead of pushing that main view area to the left or right, or bottom or top.

Of course, this would only be an option that would potentially be quite handy for smaller screens.

[Herbert123]

Small bug:

- create a rectangle, and fill with a gradient.
- switch to the select points tool, and right-mouse click one of the colour stops.
- the color dialog pops up. Switch to the Color Editor tab, and select a colour in the colour area.

Result: nothing happens.
Expected behaviour: when dragging the mouse cursor over the colours while pushing the mouse button down, the gradient colour should change along with it.

[photoken]

Important here would be that this slide-in panel area would be layered on top of the main view area, instead of pushing that main view area to the left or right, or bottom or top..

Why do you think so? Like I said, it's not good when the main editing area is obscured by the panel as is done in Illustrator and PSP. Keeping the main editing area clear is of utmost importance as far as I'm concerned.

Of course, this would only be an option that would potentially be quite handy for smaller screens.

Yes, you're right about that. It would definitely be a "Notebook" option.

I don't know exactly how this should be implemented for the docking area. For example, I've got 14 tabs organized into 6 custom panels. It would probably be best if those custom panels would have custom names and be the tabs that are shown when the docking area is collapsed. Might get kind of complicated.

One way to test the concept, implementation and usefullness would be to first implement auto-hide for the main Toolbox. That way we could test the delay, focus and such.

At any rate, this idea is not high on my priority list....

[Martin Huber]

Bei mir geht das. Ein Punkt der ausgewählt (also ausgefüllt) ist, kann mit Entf. gelöscht werden.

Bei mir gehts leider nicht.

Bei mir geht 's auch (Windows und Mac OS). Ich kann mir nur vorstellen, dass bei dir der Eingabefokus nicht auf dem Kurvenfeld ist, was man dummerweise nicht sieht, weil die Kurvenpunkte immer grün gezeichnet werden. Ich werde das so ändern, dass die Kurvenpunkte grau ausgegeben werden, wenn das Kurvenfeld nicht den Fokus hat.

Martin

[Martin Stricker]

Bei mir geht 's auch (Windows und Mac OS). Ich kann mir nur vorstellen, dass bei dir der Eingabefokus nicht auf dem Kurvenfeld ist, was man dummerweise nicht sieht, weil die Kurvenpunkte immer grün gezeichnet werden. Ich werde das so ändern, dass die Kurvenpunkte grau ausgegeben werden, wenn das Kurvenfeld nicht den Fokus hat.

Ich hab das jetzt auf zwei PCs ausprobiert. Wenn der Punkt aktiv, grün gefüllt, ist kann ich ihn mit den Pfeiltasten verschieben, aber die Entfernen-Taste funktioniert nicht.
Wäre es nicht auch eine gut Möglichkeit wenn man die Punkte einfach raus ziehen kann? Das finde ich noch direkter als eine Taste oder einen Button zu drücken. Wahrscheinlich käme es auch den zahlreichen PS-User, die demnächst auf PL wechseln, entgegen.

LG Martin

[Martin Huber]

Ich hab das jetzt auf zwei PCs ausprobiert. Wenn der Punkt aktiv, grün gefüllt, ist kann ich ihn mit den Pfeiltasten verschieben, aber die Entfernen-Taste funktioniert nicht.

Da fällt mir dann nur noch ein, dass man natürlich den ersten und letzten Punkt einer Kurve nicht löschen kann.

Wäre es nicht auch eine gut Möglichkeit wenn man die Punkte einfach raus ziehen kann?

Wie gesagt: Das sehe ich mir an.

Martin