Neue Testversion 19.40b10

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bkh
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b10

Post by bkh »

evren wrote:A bug or behaviour change: If you select a layer from layer list, the layer tool acts weird. The arrow buttons sometimes moves the layer (as expected) but sometimes makes other layer selections from layer list.
When in layer tool, arrow keys / CTRL+arrow keys expected to move the layer. It's too important for precise or equal moves in vector designs etc.
Yes, this has changed (the last posts preceding yours, in German, were about the same subject). Keyboard input now goes to the active window, usually the last one which received a mouse click. The good thing is that now you can select a layer in the layer panel using the cursor keys (extremely handy if you have long layer lists, I think), but in order to move a layer, you'll have to activate the document window (e.g., by clicking its title bar) which is an extra click.

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Burkhard.
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b10

Post by Hoogo »

Interestingly, some old pictures have an EXIF problem, others don't. It doesn't matter if the picture came directly from camera or if it was developed in some Canon tool, at least that can be told from the filename. But I cannot tell any other steps and used programs anymore.
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b10

Post by bkh »

Ashcraaft wrote: Ich finde, spätestens wenn man sich mit der Maus über dem Bildbereich befindet, den man als Ebene ausgewählt hat sollte man diesen dann auch verschieben können.
Klingt vielleicht praktisch, aber das finde ich in der Praxis furchtbar. Sobald man die Maus irgendwo "parkt", weil sie im Weg ist (oder noch schlimmer biem Stifttablett, wenn man den Stift etwas unvorsichtig aus der Hand legt), passieren plötzlich unerwartete Dinge. Ich kenne das noch von einigen X-Windows-Programmen unter UNIX. Dann lieber das alte Verhalten (für das Navigieren in der Ebenenliste kann man ja Tastaturkürzel vergeben).

L.G.

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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b10

Post by Ashcraaft »

bkh wrote:
Ashcraaft wrote: Ich finde, spätestens wenn man sich mit der Maus über dem Bildbereich befindet, den man als Ebene ausgewählt hat sollte man diesen dann auch verschieben können.
Klingt vielleicht praktisch, aber das finde ich in der Praxis furchtbar. Sobald man die Maus irgendwo "parkt", weil sie im Weg ist (oder noch schlimmer biem Stifttablett, wenn man den Stift etwas unvorsichtig aus der Hand legt), passieren plötzlich unerwartete Dinge. Ich kenne das noch von einigen X-Windows-Programmen unter UNIX. Dann lieber das alte Verhalten (für das Navigieren in der Ebenenliste kann man ja Tastaturkürzel vergeben).
Das meinte ich damit nicht, Burkhard. Ich meinte, dass der Cursor bei ausgewählter Ebene und Überfahren mit der Maus wieder (wie gewohnt) zu einem Kreuzpfeil wechselt und somit auch mit den Pfeiltasten verschoben werden kann.

Und ich stimme Dir zu, das man besser mit einer Tastenkombination in den Ebenen navigieren sollte als mit einer Tastenkombination mit Bildbereichen interagiert. Kurz; ich finde das alte, gelernte Verhalten besser :wink:
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Juan
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b10

Post by Juan »

Hello,

When a layer is set in RGB values 128,128,128, then the Lasso cursor can´t be seeing on that layer since there is no contrast between them.
I´m on Win10 PL 19.40B10

Cheers,
Juan
bkh
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b10

Post by bkh »

Ashcraaft wrote:Das meinte ich damit nicht, Burkhard. Ich meinte, dass der Cursor bei ausgewählter Ebene und Überfahren mit der Maus wieder (wie gewohnt) zu einem Kreuzpfeil wechselt und somit auch mit den Pfeiltasten verschoben werden kann.
Schon klar, aber die Maus landet halt auch schnell über der Ebene, wenn man es gar nicht beabsichtigt, sondern eigentlich nur den Stift weglegt oder die Maus wegfährt, damit der Cursor nicht stört und man nur mit der Tastatur Ebenen im Ebenendialog auswählen will. Das Problem ist, dass man dann oft gar nicht merkt, dass sich im Hauptfenster etwas verändert, weil man ja eigentlich glaubt, im Ebenendialog zu arbeiten.

L.G.

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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b10

Post by Hoogo »

Juan wrote:When a layer is set in RGB values 128,128,128, then the Lasso cursor can´t be seeing on that layer since there is no contrast between them.
I´m on Win10 PL 19.40B10
Indeed :shock: If I remember correctly, that was solved for Windows some years ago and was only a problem for Mac?
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evren
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b10

Post by evren »

bkh wrote:in order to move a layer, you'll have to activate the document window (e.g., by clicking its title bar) which is an extra click.
Thank you, I already noticed this but makes the progress a bit harder for systematical placement needs etc. Maybe the CTRL+SHIFT can be assigned to layer selection action. It will cause less loss (sizing with big steps action) from usability.
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Re: Prob: Multiple error messages for same error

Post by bkh »

Martin Huber wrote:
bkh wrote:Maybe it's worth looking at the sample image as well (...)
Well, I did. AFAICS the EXIF data do have an error. There is a strange tag 1 in the data, and this tag has an undefined data type (0).
Indeed. (For some reason, exiftool just ignores that error.) Anyhow, given the error message issued by PL, I would have expected that PL discards all the EXIF data, but in fact PL seems to have recovered all of it (which is much better, of course). Maybe a warning that some EXIF data may be damaged would have been enough?
Hoogo wrote:Interestingly, some old pictures have an EXIF problem, others don't. It doesn't matter if the picture came directly from camera or if it was developed in some Canon tool, at least that can be told from the filename. But I cannot tell any other steps and used programs anymore.
I guess that this is unrelated to the other problem – the EXIF data in your second file (IMG_1047) seems to be badly corrupt. When PL tries to import this file, there is no EXIF data present (which makes sense), but for some reason, the corrupt EXIF data ends up in XMP tags.

Cheers

Burkhard.
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b10

Post by Martin Huber »

Hoogo wrote:
Juan wrote:When a layer is set in RGB values 128,128,128, then the Lasso cursor can´t be seeing on that layer since there is no contrast between them.
I´m on Win10 PL 19.40B10
Indeed :shock: If I remember correctly, that was solved for Windows some years ago and was only a problem for Mac?
No, that problem can't occur on Mac OS, because Mac OS doesn't support XOR mouse cursors.

On Windows PhotoLine uses the cross cursor offered by Windows and this one seems to use the XOR mode. You can force PhotoLine to use its own cross instead by using the mouse settings (turning off "Use System Cursor").

Maybe we should turn that off by default or remove it altogether?

Martin
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Re: Prob: Multiple error messages for same error

Post by photoken »

Martin Huber wrote: The second warning is only shown in the beta versions and is a debugging help and intended for other kind of errors. It is not easy to remove it in this situations.
OK, not a problem.
Martin Huber wrote:The dialog will be titled "Warning" and the button text will be "Continue" in the next beta.
Sounds good. Thanks.
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b10

Post by photoken »

bkh wrote:Keyboard input now goes to the active window, usually the last one which received a mouse click. The good thing is that now you can select a layer in the layer panel using the cursor keys (extremely handy if you have long layer lists, I think), but in order to move a layer, you'll have to activate the document window (e.g., by clicking its title bar) which is an extra click.
I like the new behaviour. Logically, it makes a lot more sense.
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Prob: Visibility of precise cursor on high-res display

Post by photoken »

Martin Huber wrote: On Windows PhotoLine uses the cross cursor offered by Windows and this one seems to use the XOR mode. You can force PhotoLine to use its own cross instead by using the mouse settings (turning off "Use System Cursor").
There is a problem with the visibility of the precise cursor when the crosshair uses dots instead of a solid line.

I recently purchased a new notebook computer with a high-resolution display (2880 x 1620), with Win7 Pro x64.

With a setting of "Use Precise Cursor" for all tools, the dotted crosshair used by the Flood Fill, as well as the dotted crosshair used in the center of the Painting Tool (and others) is very difficult to see in image areas of a medium tonal value. Using the System Cursor or not does not help.

The solid crosshair used by the Ellipse/Circle, Curve Creation, Gradient, etc., is always nicely visible.

Added:
I forgot to mention that the visibility problem is especially acute when using the eyedropper from an adjustment dialog to attempt to select a colour in the main editing window.
Last edited by photoken on Thu 12 Nov 2015 08:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b10

Post by Herbert123 »

photoken wrote:
bkh wrote:Keyboard input now goes to the active window, usually the last one which received a mouse click. The good thing is that now you can select a layer in the layer panel using the cursor keys (extremely handy if you have long layer lists, I think), but in order to move a layer, you'll have to activate the document window (e.g., by clicking its title bar) which is an extra click.
I like the new behaviour. Logically, it makes a lot more sense.
From a logical programmer's point of view, perhaps. Not from the user's point of view, in my opinion. I find it very frustrating to have to click on the main view to "confirm" I wish to move or work with that layer.

And it is quite problematic when working with zoomed in comps: where do I click? If I click in the main view, there is a good chance of activating another layer, because I am not allowed to click on any other area, except the already selected item.

My options are then to:
1) carefully click the ruler area. If not activated, I must first display the rulers. And those rulers are quite a thin area - more time lost to position the mouse pointer exactly.
or
2) click the title bar. Which does not work unless the window was not active in the first place. And requires more careful mouse cursor positioning.
or
3) click the layer tool by very carefully placing the mouse cursor on that button. However, when the layer tool is already active, I get the pop-up menu first. And I have to confirm that I wish to work with the layer tool again. More clicks. More workflow breakers;
or
4) click the already selected layer to confirm I wish to work with that layer. That makes no sense at all: there is a reason why I used the layers panel to select that particular layer. And now I am supposed to confirm with a click on the already selected layer that I want to move it with the keyboard keys? And what if the selected layer is obscured by other layers? Not a workable solution.
or
5) use a shortcut key to activate the main view?? And then let go of the mouse, press the keys, and grab the mouse again? Again a workflow breaker. What is more, many users dislike shortcut keys, and prefer the mouse.
or
6) when zoomed in, first zoom out and/or pan the view, until one can click on the grey part. Then zoom and pan back to continue to work. Not really an option, of course: again a workflow breaker.
or
7) click one of the scrollbars. Again too finicky.

It is quite simple: no other image editor which works with layers forces the user to specifically activate the main view window after selecting one or more layers in the layer panel. And this is with good reason: it breaks the workflow, and it also breaks one of the reasons why you want to use the layers panel instead of the view in the first place: to select layers which are difficult to select in the view and move them instantly with the cursor keys. It is one of the primary functions! And it is broken now.

There are too many circumstances when it becomes difficult to activate the main view by just clicking it. The user is then forced to fall back to various convoluted methods to activate the main view (careful positioning of the mouse cursor is then required).

Besides, in addition it is inconsistent when compared with how the mouse works in the view: we can zoom and pan using the mouse in the view, no matter whether it that view is "active" or not.

Any other image editor I have worked with automatically activates the main view after selecting one or more layers. A far better solution is to assign shortcut keys for layer navigation and selection.
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b10

Post by Herbert123 »

Martin Huber wrote:
Ashcraaft wrote:Ich finde, spätestens wenn man sich mit der Maus über dem Bildbereich befindet, den man als Ebene ausgewählt hat sollte man diesen dann auch verschieben können. Alles andere erscheint mir zwar programmspezifisch logisch aber gleichzeitig auch unpraktisch.
Wenn du mit der Maus über dem Dokument bist, kannst du die Ebene natürlich mit der Maus verschieben.

Ansonsten kenne ich unter Windows und OS X kein Programm, dass durch bloßes Verschieben der Maus den Eingabefokus für die Tastatur ändert.

Martin
Blender. https://www.blender.org/

Although I concur with you that that workflow is not aligned with how image editors generally work either. Select layer, move layer with cursor keys. That is how it works in any other image editor I am aware of.
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