Neue Testversion 19.40b12

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Herbert123
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b12

Post by Herbert123 »

The attached zipped file is a plain SVG file (no InkScape extensions!) and validates. It is a simple object with straight-forward strokes and plain fills (just one colour). The strokes are not visible in Photoline - some strokes should have reduced opacity as well.
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Herbert123
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b12

Post by Herbert123 »

Strange bug:

1) Open a file in Photoline (jpg, for example).
2) Now open the same file in another editor (Paint, IrfanView, Gimp, etc.).
3) Edit the file in the other editor, and save the changes (jpg, write over the old file).
4) Switch back to Photoline, and Photoline asks whether you want to reload the file. Confirm this.
5) Click the layer thumbnail in the layer panel once or twice.

Result: the view jumps to the right (for me, since I have the edge widths set to 1000% in the preferences), and the GUI locks up. Right-mouse click, and selecting all will restore normal operation.

This is in Windows - can anyone confirm?
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Gerhard Huber
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b12

Post by Gerhard Huber »

has an unknown encoding "ASCII" in the first line. Our XML parser doesn't read this. Never had such a file here.
Herbert123 wrote:Also, SVG supports animation. It would be great if Photoline could open these files, and (just like gif animations) open each frame as a layer. And saving of an animated SVG ought to be similarly supported, just like animated gifs.
https://www.blender.org/manual/_images/ ... g_cube.svg
very complex thing "animated SVG". I think it's to much effort at the moment.
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Gerhard Huber
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b12

Post by Gerhard Huber »

Herbert123 wrote:The attached zipped file is a plain SVG file (no InkScape extensions!) and validates. It is a simple object with straight-forward strokes and plain fills (just one colour). The strokes are not visible in Photoline - some strokes should have reduced opacity as well.
is read almost correct. Only the color intensity of the lines is not correct. I will fix this.
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Gerhard Huber
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b12

Post by Gerhard Huber »

Herbert123 wrote:This is in Windows - can anyone confirm?
no such a problem here.
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b12

Post by Onkel Hatti »

Herbert123 wrote: This is in Windows - can anyone confirm?
Cannot confirm. Works as expected.

Win10 x64
PL19.40b12 64Bit
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Herbert123
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b12

Post by Herbert123 »

Gerhard Huber wrote:
Herbert123 wrote:This is in Windows - can anyone confirm?
no such a problem here.
Stange - I will record the screen later to demonstrate what is happening.
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b12

Post by photoken »

Herbert123 wrote:As for SVG being "little used" - it is used A LOT on the web
Not from what I see. None of the Web sites I visit (from news sites to product information sites to shopping sites) use SVG. It seems to me that, although it has intriguing possibilities, it has been completely ignored by the world at large -- Web pages simply use JPG or PNG for their graphics. In other words, SVG is another nice technology that is a solution in search of a problem.
Herbert123 wrote:Besides, it is an open format, and is used to exchange data between applications as well
Well, as I've explained before, it's only an open format for the specific purpose of telling Web browsers how to display vector objects. PDF is a much more robust and open standard and has long been the de facto standard for interchange between applications.

The point of my comments is not to debate SVG as such. My point is that it would be of much greater benefit to more users of PL for PL to support opening AI images -- there is a large world of freely available patterns, symbols, and templates in AI format that would be great to use in PL. The previously posted example of Avery Labelling templates is a good example.
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b12

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photoken wrote:My point is that it would be of much greater benefit to more users of PL for PL to support opening AI images -- there is a large world of freely available patterns, symbols, and templates in AI format that would be great to use in PL. The previously posted example of Avery Labelling templates is a good example.
In order to effectively use those symbols, patterns, and page templates, it would be handy if Photoline would be able to support vector based patterns, offer a true linked symbol library (perhaps based on virtual layers), and have some kind of page template option.

Currently my work-around involves creating a dedicated page that holds all virtual layers (symbols) and page template elements, and I reuse those in the documents. Not that efficient. An Illustrator symbol library would be extremely helpful to organize elements.

Photoline already opens AI files when PDF is encapsulated - native support for AI I just do not see happening: even Illustrator files themselves include a warning that the file should be re-saved with the "Create PDF Compatible File" option, otherwise other applications will be unable to open it. Even Affinity Designer (a dedicated vector app) refuses to open Illustrator files without a PDF stream, or will open very old Illustrator files with EPS content with many caveats. Unfortunately, it is the responsibility of the AI content designers to make sure they share their AI files as a PDF compatible file.

As for SVG: naturally I disagree with you :wink:
Great SVG support is quite important. You may not see it, since you do not work in either web development or game and mobile development. But I do, and as a format SVG has become more and more important in the last five years. The web is mobile first now, since more people browse the web with a mobile device rather than a desktop or laptop machine. SVG is playing an important role there. Most of the students I teach in web development and digital design use it in their workflow now. Entire 2d game asset pipelines are based on SVG assets. I see it used all over the place by game studios, game developers, mobile developers, front end developers, and so on, and so forth. Since the demise of Flash SVG was picked up as an alternative to display high resolution content on mobile platforms with retina screens. It can be hooked up to Javascript with ease for all sorts of interactivity.
It is certainly NOT a solution looking for a problem.

PDF is ultimately meant as a final publication format, and rates rather poorly in my book as an exchange format (try opening a pdf file with text: all the letters are separate elements). SVG is a superior exchange format: it retains edit-ability to a much larger degree, if well supported in applications.
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b12

Post by Herbert123 »

...and one more problematic SVG file (exported from Illustrator). The gradient with a semi-transparent stop is not imported correctly.
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b12

Post by photoken »

Herbert123 wrote: In order to effectively use those symbols, patterns, and page templates, it would be handy if Photoline would be able to support vector based patterns, offer a true linked symbol library (perhaps based on virtual layers), and have some kind of page template option.
Yep, sounds good to me.
Herbert123 wrote:As for SVG: naturally I disagree with you :wink:
Sure, we'll agree to disagree on that one, too. :)

Whether some people use it to develope games or not, the fact is that the Web in general does not need SVG. When high-resolution content is needed, it's because the content is in a raster image and that's accommodated by JPG and PNG.
Herbert123 wrote:(try opening a pdf file with text: all the letters are separate elements)
???
Absolutely not. When saved as PDF X:3 2002 (which is the ISO standard for graphic exchange), the lines of text remain as lines of text. PDF, as I said, is the superior format for maximum compatibility between applications, and is more fully supported by a wide variety of applications in many fields.
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b12

Post by photoken »

Herbert123 wrote:...and one more problematic SVG file (exported from Illustrator).
Thanks for proving my point -- when that image is exported from Illustrator as a PDF, it opens perfectly.

It's best to use PDF X:3 for graphics interchange between applications....
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Herbert123
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b12

Post by Herbert123 »

Ah, my bad: PDF does indeed support normal text output. I am revising my opinion towards PDF: it is used as an exchange format, and I concede that I am in the wrong here. :oops:

I could go into the technicalities of why SVG is an extremely useful web format, and fills a number of niches which cannot be filled by other formats, but I feel that I might be unable to convince you. Aside from regular web work, it is also tremendously useful for responsive design and mobile app development. Not only for 2d game graphics.

Anyway, I prefer to work with SVG output, since my work demands that. PDF output is useful to me for print jobs and the odd presentation - but it is of course unusable for web and app work. SVG is a rather fitting solution for a good many situation, and works well together with other languages such as Javascript and CSS because it is a markup language and an open standard. SVG is also supported in ePub files (which I also create for clients), and often a far better choice than bitmaps for (hopefully) obvious reasons.

In a nutshell, SVG is utilized in a variety of environments nowadays. Both PDF and SVG deserve excellent support in Photoline. I think we can agree on this? :)
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b12

Post by Gerhard Huber »

Herbert123 wrote:...and one more problematic SVG file (exported from Illustrator). The gradient with a semi-transparent stop is not imported correctly.
will have a look on it.
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b12

Post by Eurgail »

SVG is used in the Wikipedia for example. Browser can read it directly (embedded in the webpage), it's small and so, for an exchange of vector graphics it's really usefull. And i have never seen PDF used for this kind of work.
Ai support is a bit problematic, i think. It's a proprietary format based on Postscipt with special Illustrator stuff. So, PhotoLine will never support the full format. Perhaps it is doable to support the basic functions? But is it really neccessary?
I believe, it's only historic, that one can find it as an exchange format, and should be ignored, perhaps it's getting replaced by SVG some day, then.
So, Guys that want to share their work can put PDF content in the Ai-File or use SVG instead, in my opinion...
I think, it is like saying PhotoLine should support CorelDraw-Files or Illustrator should support PhotoLine-File. At some point programs have differences and there you cannot reproduce the functionality of the other...

P.S.: That's why i'm also pretty sceptical about these filters, that are supported in SVG and can be done with Inkscape.It's very special again (you have to use exactly the same filter algorithms in your software to render it correctly and an so on). So, no other program can read them to 100% (don't know what Corel does)...