Neue Testversion 19.40b16

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ellhel
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b16

Post by ellhel »

ellhel wrote:Hallo,

wenn ich mit den Tastenkürzeln Werkzeuge anwähle, bekommt das Textfeld (der Eintrag "Gewicht") in den Werkzeugeinstellungen den Fokus.
Wenn ich z.Bsp. mit "E" zum Radiergummi wechsle und dann mit "B" zum Pinsel zurück möchte, geht das nicht.
Stattdessen tippe ich ganze viele "b"`s in das Textfeld.
Mach ich was falsch?

LG
Helmut
Mir ist noch was aufgefallen. Wenn ich "Ebenenliste mit Tastatursteuerung" einschalte, und dann das Menü mit den Darstellungsmodi "runterrolle", kann ich mit den Pfeiltasten zwei bis-dreimal den Modus wechseln. Dann schließt sich das Menü.

LG
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Martin Huber
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b16

Post by Martin Huber »

Herbert123 wrote:
photoken wrote:
Herbert123 wrote: I tried dragging a pattern to just about any part of Photoline's interface, but nothing happens.
On Win7 x64 with PL19.40b16 x64, I need to drag and drop the pattern onto the main editing area of an empty PL instance.
(...) The workflow is too obscure - that really needs an improvement.
The question is how to improve the workflow. Creating a new document for editing the vector pattern changes the active layer, and the color field, that contained the vector pattern, will probably be gone.

Martin
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b16

Post by Eurgail »

Mir ist noch etwas bezüglich des PDF-Exports aufgefallen: In der aktuellen Beta werden beim Export in PDF/X1a und PDF/X3 Verrechnungsmodi nicht korrekt umgesetzt, wenn sie sich auf eine darunterliegende Ebene beziehen.

Nachzustellen zum Beispiel so:
- Zwei Ebenen erstellen, die sich zumindest teilweise überlappen
- Die obere Ebene in einen Verrechnungsmodus setzen
- Passend Exportieren

Betroffen sind nur die Beta und auch nur diese Exportmodi.
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b16

Post by Martin Huber »

Eurgail wrote:Mir ist noch etwas bezüglich des PDF-Exports aufgefallen: In der aktuellen Beta werden beim Export in PDF/X1a und PDF/X3 Verrechnungsmodi nicht korrekt umgesetzt, wenn sie sich auf eine darunterliegende Ebene beziehen.

Nachzustellen zum Beispiel so:
- Zwei Ebenen erstellen, die sich zumindest teilweise überlappen
- Die obere Ebene in einen Verrechnungsmodus setzen
- Passend Exportieren

Betroffen sind nur die Beta und auch nur diese Exportmodi.
Du hattest ein RGB-Dokument? PDF/X1a und PDF/X3 basieren beide auf CMYK und daher verhalten sich die Verknüpfungsmodi etwas anders. Die andere Verhaltensweise solltest du aber bereits sehen, wenn du den PDF-Proofmodus aktivierst.

Frühere PhotoLine-Version erzeugten das Mischbild zuerst im Farbraum des Dokuments (also evtl. RGB) und konvertierten dann in den CMYK-Farbraum. Das hatte aber das Problem, dass zwischen dem Mischbild und dem originalen, nicht zu deinem Bild reduzierten Inhalt eine Farbkante sichtbar sein konnte. Daher baut PhotoLine das Mischbild nun direkt im Zielfarbraum auf.

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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b16

Post by Eurgail »

Danke für die rasche Antwort! Ich glaube das trifft hier nicht zu: sonst müsste ja beim Export in CMYK dasselbe passieren?! Das tut es aber nicht. (Screenshots)
Im PDF-Proofmodus sehe ich gar keinen Unterschied.
Das Beispieldokument ist angehängt.
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b16

Post by Martin Huber »

Eurgail wrote:Danke für die rasche Antwort! Ich glaube das trifft hier nicht zu:
Doch, das ist IMO genau der Fall.
Eurgail wrote:sonst müsste ja beim Export in CMYK dasselbe passieren?!
Das hängt davon ab, wie du in CMYK exportierst.
Eurgail wrote:(...)Im PDF-Proofmodus sehe ich gar keinen Unterschied.
Der PDF-Proofmodus benutzt die globalen PDF-Einstellungen aus dem Optionen-Dialog unter "Datei > PDF".

Martin
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b16

Post by Eurgail »

Martin Huber wrote:Doch, das ist IMO genau der Fall.
Nagut. Dann verstehe ich es nur nicht. :-)
Martin Huber wrote:Das hängt davon ab, wie du in CMYK exportierst.
Ich stelle beim Export nach PDF den Farbraum auf CMYK. Das ist alles. (Ergebnis ist das Bild oben.)
Martin Huber wrote:Der PDF-Proofmodus benutzt die globalen PDF-Einstellungen aus dem Optionen-Dialog unter "Datei > PDF".
Ah, gut zu wissen! Das war mir nicht klar. Ich hatte meinen Standardeinstellungen für diesen Export nicht geändert und dann hat es natürlich keinen Unterschied macht. Jetzt sehe ich auch den Clou an der Option, super, danke! :-)
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b16

Post by Eurgail »

Nachtrag: Ich habe noch mal etwas rumprobiert und beim Export in CMYK mit stufenloser Transparenz wird soweit passend verrechnet (die Aufgabe wird an den Betrachter abgegeben, der Verrechnugsmodus muss nur dort passend umgesetzt werden).
Martin Huber wrote:Daher baut PhotoLine das Mischbild nun direkt im Zielfarbraum auf.
Also könnte die Ursache dann wirklich hier liegen. Nur ist es so, dass bei der Transparenzoption "Hintergrund ersetzen" (+ CMYK als Farbraum) das Verhalten nicht auftritt. (Funktioniert diese Konfiguration dann anders? Dann müssten ja hier die unschönen Ränder entstehen!?)
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b16

Post by Hoogo »

"Farbton/Sättigung" hat bei mir grad das Problem des Absturzes, sobald ich einen Range auswähle. Das liess sich mit neuen Usersettings beheben, ich schick euch meine per Mail.
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b16

Post by Hoogo »

Falls mal wieder was an der GUI der Filter-Vorschau gemacht werden sollte (und grad das Thema aufgekommen ist): Wäre schön, wenn man aus dem normalen Filter-Dialog nicht nur eine Arbeitsebene erstellen könnte und das für weitere Ebenentypen möglich wäre, auch das hinzufügen einer Arbeit zu einer vorhandenen Maske wäre nützlich.
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Herbert123
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b16

Post by Herbert123 »

I will repeat this request once more: it would be great if we could somehow export layers/layer groups to different formats and sizes in one go. Photoshop has Generator, and the layer names are used to define the various output options.

Now, I am aware that Gerhard found that to be too obscure (and I agree), and I would again like to request a new export option for layers. Perhaps an additional optional export function in the layer properties, which displays a list of exports? That would really move Photoline from the last place to the front contenders in the "horse race".

What web/mobile designers are looking for is:
1) deciding the output format(s) and output settings for each layer, and the output directory, with folder options;
2) deciding the output scale for each layer (1, 2x, 2.5x, 3x, custom settings);
3) then export all of the layers in one go.
4) an option to automatically crop to transparency.

5) ideally, making a change to output settings automatically cleans up the old files and folders when the assets are exported once more. This way we would not have to delete older versions ourselves.
6) a preview function to view the optimized version

Photoline has fallen behind most other currently available design applications in this regard, unfortunately, and it should not be too difficult to implement at least the first 4 points. It would really make a tremendous difference for Photoline as a viable web/mobile/GUI/2d game graphics tool.

I really hope you will take this request into consideration.

Here is a mockup of how the EXISTING functionality of Photoline could be integrated in a simple-to-use extended layer export:
full.jpg
Full resolution version: http://www.estructor.altervista.org/full.png

The new Export Layer(s) option in the layer menu would export all selected layers. If no export settings are defined for a layer, the Export Layer(s) option will export to a default settings controlled in the preferences.

The File-->Export-->Export All Layers will ONLY export those layers which have Export settings defined in the layer properties. Others will be ignored.

By re-using Photoline's existing dialogs to control the settings, the Hubers do not need to come up with completely new functionality, only re-purpose them! :D

The one thing missing here is an automatic transparency crop/trim function, which ideally would be added to the Web Export dialog. Most of the times the layer should be trimmed, but there are instances when this is not the preferred behaviour, and the white space surrounding an image should be retained.

Comments welcome!
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b16

Post by Herbert123 »

By the way, while preparing the mockup, I noticed that we can now assign a layer effect to multiple selected layers at once!

What a TIME SAVER! Thanks!

One caveat: when turning off a layer style in the layer properties, only the active layer is affected. It would be nice if all the selected layers with that layer effect would be affected.
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b16

Post by photoken »

Herbert123 wrote:I would again like to request a new export option for layers.
In general, I don't like almost all of those options. They are way too complicated and are not something I would use.

In particular, I don't like adding those export options to the Layer Properties, which has very many options already. When you consider that the information in the properties panel will already expand for additional vector fill/stroke items, that panel would quickly become too full of stuff. (The only additional item I'd like to see in the Layer Properties would be a field for "Comments" to aid in searching....)

Having said that, I do agree that it would be nice to have an additional item under File...Export: Export Layers. This would export the selected layers and be very useful. Care would need to be taken when exporting a layer to also export its child adjustment layers. For example, given this set of layers:
motorcycle 01 layers.png
the Curves and Histogram adjustments applied to the motorcycle and its original background should definitely be applied as part of the export. What I'm trying to achieve here is to get the original image as adjusted without having to first make the "Master Mask" (which isolates the motorcycle from its original background) and the background graphic invisible. In other words, the new Export Layers function would export the selected layers and their child layers, but not their parent layers.
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b16

Post by Herbert123 »

photoken wrote:
Herbert123 wrote:I would again like to request a new export option for layers.
In general, I don't like almost all of those options. They are way too complicated and are not something I would use.
I understand that you may not use it, but that is because you do not develop/design for websites, mobile, and 2d games. For anyone remotely working in said fields these features are almost essential to have. Thing is, the competition already has similar features in place (Photoshop, Affinity Photo, Sketch, etc.), and web export is important enough for most users to ensure to keep those updated. Currently Photoline is really behind in this.
photoken wrote: In particular, I don't like adding those export options to the Layer Properties, which has very many options already. When you consider that the information in the properties panel will already expand for additional vector fill/stroke items, that panel would quickly become too full of stuff. (The only additional item I'd like to see in the Layer Properties would be a field for "Comments" to aid in searching....)
Well, I do agree the layer properties are cluttered with options already. Putting these options in an additional web export settings panel instead would be an alternative. Only users who would actually need access to these settings would then have them available to them. They would not get in your way, or other users who do not require these options in their workflow.
photoken wrote: Having said that, I do agree that it would be nice to have an additional item under File...Export: Export Layers. This would export the selected layers and be very useful. Care would need to be taken when exporting a layer to also export its child adjustment layers. For example, given this set of layers:
motorcycle 01 layers.png
the Curves and Histogram adjustments applied to the motorcycle and its original background should definitely be applied as part of the export. What I'm trying to achieve here is to get the original image as adjusted without having to first make the "Master Mask" (which isolates the motorcycle from its original background) and the background graphic invisible. In other words, the new Export Layers function would export the selected layers and their child layers, but not their parent layers.
Photoline can already export selected layers and groups of layers: select one or more groups or layers, and choose Layer-->Management-->Save Layer. The selected layers and groups will be saved.

The issue I have with this option is that:
1) it is not possible to save multiple layers with different settings all at once. I need to select and export each layer/group individually.
2) every single time I must re-export the same assets, I am forced to go through this again, and again, and again. A single change in overall colour: export every single asset once more, and I have to keep changing the settings again, and again, and again. It is very awkward and inconvenient.
3) settings are not kept for layer export.
4) there is no way to export all assets in one go, with the required settings.
5) often multiple versions of the same asset are required for responsive design, and retina/normal screens. Thumbnails as well. That means I have to manually scale and export every single asset. And with a client change I am forced to go through this again.

It all takes SO MUCH TIME, while in Photoshop and other tools it is a matter of defining the settings once, setting the paths once, and deciding which sizes I require ONCE. Then just export everything in one fell swoop. Photoshop even allows for automatic generation WHILE the user works on changes. Even the paths and files update when the structure is changed: which means less work for the developer.

Anyway, the tools are already present in Photoline. We just need a way to save export and scaling settings and export paths for selected layers/groups. Whether those settings become available in the layer properties, or in a dedicated panel is not important. Important is that it becomes possible - the competition is able to do it, and Photoline could implement it in such a way that it outpaces the competition.
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Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b16

Post by photoken »

Herbert123 wrote: Photoline can already export selected layers and groups of layers: select one or more groups or layers, and choose Layer-->Management-->Save Layer. The selected layers and groups will be saved.
Holy S*! That's exactly what I've been wanting. It even saves multiple selected layers to individual files (but the file names are a little bizarre....) Thanks a million for pointing that out! :)
Herbert123 wrote:The issue I have with this option is that:
I don't share any of those concerns. I never need to use multiple file saving options, or scale the layers, or trim them, or keep exporting variations of the same layers, etc. I'm not saying that those features wouldn't be useful to some people, but that's one of the features of PhotoShop that's unnecessary for me.
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.