Neue Testversion 19.40b17

[photoken]

What do you think?

I don't understand the purpose of changing.

Also, if there's the slightest chance that thing will f* up PhotoLine's outstanding variable width vector line drawing with a pen and tablet, I will personally work with the Strategic Air Command to bomb into oblivion every computer on the planet that has that code....

[bkh]

Ich kann die Mac-Version leider nicht herunterladen (Fehler 404 – Seite nicht gefunden).

Martin hat mir wieder ein großes "B" in den Dateinamen gemogelt. Ich habe das geändert, jetzt müsste der Link funktionieren.

Ja, danke, funktioniert. Komischerweise bekomme ich bei Safari wie bei der letzten Beta zunächst beim Klick auf den Link erst noch die 404-Seite. "Reload" geht dann. Wenn ich zurück ins Forum gehe und wieder auf den Link klicke, kommt erst wieder die 404-Seite. Erst wenn ich den Safari-Cache lösche, geht alles problemlos. (Wie gesagt, vermutlich aber ein Safari-Problem.)

L.G.

Burkhard.

[Martin Huber]

When attempting to paste either a vector shape or a raster image into the Pattern List, PL crashes.

Yes, it crashes, if you try to paste a new color.

I will fix that.

Martin

[Martin Huber]

Btw, Photoline crashes all the time now when I use the textures or pattern panel. Not always, but regularly. Can't really put my finger on it why yet.

It crashes, if you use the context or window menu without an active color cell.

Martin

[bkh]

Den neuen(?) Befehl "Farbe aus Dokument" (bzw. "Color from Document") finde ich ein bisschen unverständlich. Vielleicht wäre "Muster aus Dokument" oder sogar "Muster aus Dokument erzeugen" deutlicher.

Einen Absturz hatte ich eben, als ich mit den Vektormustern gespielt habe, aber ich weiß nicht so genau, was ich dabei gemacht habe. Könnte der Fehler sein, den photoken eben erwähnt hat. Wollt ihr trotzdem das Crashlog, oder soll ich das weiter beobachten?

L.G.

Burkhard.

[Martin Huber]

However, there are bizarre problems when using a single vector line as the pattern. Rotating the pattern causes the vector lines to become blurred, or become a strange "chunky" vector effect, or disappear entirely -- all depending on the angle of rotation. A little more work is needed for this case. When the vector pattern is a shape, things work really well.

Can you send us a small sample document (just a vector shape with a problematic pattern)?

Martin

[Martin Huber]

Den neuen(?) Befehl "Farbe aus Dokument" (bzw. "Color from Document") finde ich ein bisschen unverständlich. Vielleicht wäre "Muster aus Dokument" oder sogar "Muster aus Dokument erzeugen" deutlicher.

Einen Absturz hatte ich eben, als ich mit den Vektormustern gespielt habe, aber ich weiß nicht so genau, was ich dabei gemacht habe. Könnte der Fehler sein, den photoken eben erwähnt hat. Wollt ihr trotzdem das Crashlog, oder soll ich das weiter beobachten?

photokens Absturz tritt immer bei den Farblisten auf, wenn das Kontextmenü oder Fenstermenü angezeigt werden soll. Der Fehler tritt nicht nur bei den Muster-, sondern auch bei den anderen Farblisten auf.

Ein Crashlog kannst du uns im Zweifelsfall immer schicken.

Martin

[Eurgail]

Sollte die Ligaturenfunktion jetzt eigentlich funktionieren? Bei mir verhält sie sich jetzt nämlich anders als in der vorherigen Beta, aber nicht wie erwartet.

[Gerhard Huber]

Sollte die Ligaturenfunktion jetzt eigentlich funktionieren? Bei mir verhält sie sich jetzt nämlich anders als in der vorherigen Beta, aber nicht wie erwartet.

Bei mir hier unter Windows 7 hat sie keinerlei Auswirkung. Die Windowsfunktion, die wir damit bedienen reagiert nicht auf die Änderung des Wertes. Daher gibt es die Funktion für Windows nur in der Beta. Unter Mac OS sollte es keine Probleme geben.

[Eurgail]

Bei mir hier unter Windows 7 hat sie keinerlei Auswirkung.

Ah, ok, ich bin gerade ausnahmweise unter Windows 8.1 (sonst Windows 7 und da tat sich bei der letzten Beta jedenfalls wirklich einfach nichts) unterwegs und da ist es so, dass die Funktion immer einmal reagiert: Zwei passende Buchstaben werden immer zusammengeführt, ausser es wurde vorher der Knopf getätigt. Dabei ist es egal von von "aktiv" zu "inaktiv" und umgekehrt. Für den nächsten Buchstaben muss das dann wieder wiederholt werden.

[Herbert123]

What do you think?

I don't understand the purpose of changing.

Also, if there's the slightest chance that thing will f* up PhotoLine's outstanding variable width vector line drawing with a pen and tablet, I will personally work with the Strategic Air Command to bomb into oblivion every computer on the planet that has that code....

Of course it would not - the bitmap brush engine is separate from the vector one. Currently most competitors seem to offer a much better (bitmap) brush engine, which is not only (of course) good for artistic purposes, but also for masking work, retouching, compositing, and so on. It basically affects all aspects of the application.

I am not saying Photoline's current brush engine is "bad" - it is not, but it does pale in comparison to the competition (Pixelmator, Gimp, Photoshop, and every other digital painting software out there). Even for simpler paint work I always switch to Krita.

By updating the paint tools to the MyPaint brush engine, or including it as a new brush tool (leaving the old ones alone - this is what the developers in Gimp did) the paint tools of Photoline would be brought into the 21st century.

Anyway, my point is that the current brush tools are rather weak compared to what is available in the competition. And a good updated brush engine will benefit us all, no matter what type of work you do in Photoline.

[photoken]

I don't understand the purpose of changing.

Anyway, my point is that the current brush tools are rather weak compared to what is available in the competition. And a good updated brush engine will benefit us all, no matter what type of work you do in Photoline.

I still don't understand what, exactly, the "improvements" might be.

Another thing to keep in mind is the danger of using open-source software libraries -- the code likely relies on several pieces of code from someone else, and each of those pieces of code rely on several pieces of code from others, and so on. It quickly becomes an incomprehensible swamp of dependencies that prevent any sort of troubleshooting. So it can become impossible to improve or fix anything -- if there's any mismatch between versions of the code or the compiler used for each of the pieces of code, the whole thing comes crashing down like a house of cards.

[Martin Stricker]

The MyPaint brush engine is quite advanced, and the library can be downloaded here:
https://github.com/mypaint/libmypaint/
https://github.com/mypaint/libmypaint/

It is actually already implemented in commercial products such as Pixelmator and PostWorkShop. A mobile iOS app called "Drawing Brush Free - Paint, Draw, Sketch" is makes use of it as well. The latest beta versions of GIMP also include the same library.

I would like to have a better brusch enginge as well.

Martin

[Herbert123]

I don't understand the purpose of changing.

Anyway, my point is that the current brush tools are rather weak compared to what is available in the competition. And a good updated brush engine will benefit us all, no matter what type of work you do in Photoline.

I still don't understand what, exactly, the "improvements" might be.

Another thing to keep in mind is the danger of using open-source software libraries -- the code likely relies on several pieces of code from someone else, and each of those pieces of code rely on several pieces of code from others, and so on. It quickly becomes an incomprehensible swamp of dependencies that prevent any sort of troubleshooting. So it can become impossible to improve or fix anything -- if there's any mismatch between versions of the code or the compiler used for each of the pieces of code, the whole thing comes crashing down like a house of cards.

In this case it is "production proven", since it is already adopted by Pixelmator and a number of other commercial and non-commercial products, as I have pointed out before.

Ken, if you have ever tried painting in other applications, you will discover for yourself that Photoline's tools, while acceptable, are just not capable enough to keep up. Users have come to expect more nowadays.

*Edit*: just google "MyPaint" in Google Images, and you will see what I mean.

Besides, the request for improved painting tools has been made a number of times before by others as well on this forum.
Whether the MyPaint library is used to accomplish this, or the existing brush engine is expanded is not important. I do think it would save the Hubers a lot of time when they use the MyPaint library - and it is possible to re-use existing brushes. Basically, not having to reinvent the wheel.

[photoken]

it is already adopted by Pixelmator and a number of other commercial and non-commercial products, as I have pointed out before.

That means nothing with respect to the potential problems I pointed out about using open-source libraries.

Photoline's tools, while acceptable, are just not capable enough to keep up

123, you keep speaking in vague generalities. I'm not being argumentative for it's own sake, just trying to understand exactly what "improvements" you're talking about. Something like "In program XYZ you can paint a line that looks like this, but not in PL."