Neue Testversion 19.40b17

Hier diskutieren die Betatester von PhotoLine untereinander und mit den Entwicklern
bkh
Betatester
Posts: 3661
Joined: Thu 26 Nov 2009 22:59

Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b17

Post by bkh »

You'll have to disable "Paint only once" disabled in Preferences -> Working -> Brush. (I keep forgetting if this corresponds to a flow of 0% or 100%.) Anyway, with the soft brushes I have defined for me use a custom brush intensity curve (the standard linear one never worked for me), an inner radius of 0 and a step size of 5% (10% is ok for smaller brushes) give something like
soft brush.jpg
Looks quite reasonable to me.

Cheers

Burkhard.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Martin Huber
Entwickler
Entwickler
Posts: 3942
Joined: Tue 19 Nov 2002 15:49

Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b17

Post by Martin Huber »

bkh wrote:Anyway, with the soft brushes I have defined for me use a custom brush intensity curve (the standard linear one never worked for me),
The standard brushes don't have a linear curve, but one that's very close to yours.
bkh wrote:an inner radius of 0 and a step size of 5% (10% is ok for smaller brushes)
That's very small. The standard brushes in PS usually have a step size of 25%. Due to the different way PS defines the size of the brushes, this corresponds to about 15% in PhotoLine.

Martin
User avatar
Martin Stricker
Mitglied
Posts: 867
Joined: Tue 14 Oct 2003 08:19
Location: BW

Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b17

Post by Martin Stricker »

bkh wrote:You'll have to disable "Paint only once" disabled in Preferences -> Working -> Brush.
Thanks, now it works. :D
But what is this option for?

Martin
User avatar
Herbert123
Mitglied
Posts: 2009
Joined: Sat 12 May 2012 21:38

Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b17

Post by Herbert123 »

Bug HDR import

This HDR file throws an error when I attempt to open it in Photoline:
http://www.estructor.altervista.org/hdr ... den_1k.hdr

I then converted it to an EXR file in Photoshop, and opened it in Photoline.
http://www.estructor.altervista.org/hdr ... den_1k.exr

But when I try to apply an Optimize HDR adjustment layer, Photoline crashes.

Can someone confirm these two issues?
/*---------------------------------------------*/
System: Win10 64bit - i7 920@3.6Ghz, p6t Deluxe v1, 48gb (6x8gb RipjawsX), Nvidia GTX1080 8GB, Revodrive X2 240gb, e-mu 1820, 2XSamsung SA850 (2560*1440) and 1XHP2408H 1920*1200 portrait
User avatar
Herbert123
Mitglied
Posts: 2009
Joined: Sat 12 May 2012 21:38

Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b17

Post by Herbert123 »

I am beginning to understand what is going on. I opened the same HDR file Blender, and the sun displays a highest intensity value of around 120000.

I converted the same file to an EXR file in Blender instead, and low and behold: the values are retained, and Photoline imports the file, but Photoline CANNOT display them:
Untitled.jpg
The HDR import in Photoline refuses to load the documents because of those excessive high intensity values.

When I try to add a HDR optimization adjustment layer, the HDR adjustment cannot deal with these values either, and crashes. I had one instance with a Blender rendered EXR image (with values beyond a certain intensity limit), where the HDR window would pop up, but the contents was garbled.

In short:
1) HDR import with extremely high intensity values fails (I am guessing around the 90.000 ~ 100.000 limit).
2) EXR import with extremely high intensity values works, BUT: a) the colour dropper cannot display those values correctly; and 2) the HDR adjustment layer crashes Photoline with these type of images.

I also found that Photoline has a tendency to crash with these high intensity images. Probably the same underlying cause in the code.

*EDIT* it seems Photoline cannot handle 32bpc images beyond half-float?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by Herbert123 on Sat 05 Mar 2016 21:18, edited 3 times in total.
/*---------------------------------------------*/
System: Win10 64bit - i7 920@3.6Ghz, p6t Deluxe v1, 48gb (6x8gb RipjawsX), Nvidia GTX1080 8GB, Revodrive X2 240gb, e-mu 1820, 2XSamsung SA850 (2560*1440) and 1XHP2408H 1920*1200 portrait
User avatar
Herbert123
Mitglied
Posts: 2009
Joined: Sat 12 May 2012 21:38

Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b17

Post by Herbert123 »

Here is an example to work with. The intensity values are excessively high, but hidden in the bright light is a simple room scene.

http://www.estructor.altervista.org/hdr/render.exr

With the HDR adjustment layer I should be able to get this (tone mapping done in Blender):
hidden.jpg
Unfortunately, Photoline crashes when I attempt to do so.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
/*---------------------------------------------*/
System: Win10 64bit - i7 920@3.6Ghz, p6t Deluxe v1, 48gb (6x8gb RipjawsX), Nvidia GTX1080 8GB, Revodrive X2 240gb, e-mu 1820, 2XSamsung SA850 (2560*1440) and 1XHP2408H 1920*1200 portrait
bkh
Betatester
Posts: 3661
Joined: Thu 26 Nov 2009 22:59

Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b17

Post by bkh »

Martin Huber wrote:
bkh wrote:Anyway, with the soft brushes I have defined for me use a custom brush intensity curve (the standard linear one never worked for me),
The standard brushes don't have a linear curve, but one that's very close to yours.
I think I still had the standard brushes from PL 15.50 – good to see that this has changed.
Martin Huber wrote:
bkh wrote:an inner radius of 0 and a step size of 5% (10% is ok for smaller brushes)
That's very small. The standard brushes in PS usually have a step size of 25%. Due to the different way PS defines the size of the brushes, this corresponds to about 15% in PhotoLine.
10% or even 15% are not a problem if I'm drawing fast or if the brush is small. But for slow precise movements with large brushes, I just prefer more dabs – having to move the cursor for 10% of the diameter to have some visual feedback is sometimes too much. Also, when drawing with a large hard brush, the individual dabs become visible at 10%.

Cheers

Burkhard.
bkh
Betatester
Posts: 3661
Joined: Thu 26 Nov 2009 22:59

Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b17

Post by bkh »

Herbert123 wrote:Here is an example to work with. The intensity values are excessively high, but hidden in the bright light is a simple room scene.

http://www.estructor.altervista.org/hdr/render.exr
I can confirm the crashes when trying to open the HDR panel. However, the normal histogram correction panel works and can be used to reveal the room scene, or to darken the sun and surrounding sky area, so the exr import seems to work in principle.

However, the window and the centre of the sun have infinity as values. Not sure if this is the cause of the HDR panel crash. The histogram correction panel doesn't handle infinity correctly, resulting in a NaN which is rendered as black. Btw., it would be nice if the colour picker float values changed to scientific notation eventually, instead of truncating the numbers.

Cheers

Burkhard.
User avatar
Herbert123
Mitglied
Posts: 2009
Joined: Sat 12 May 2012 21:38

Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b17

Post by Herbert123 »

bkh wrote:
Herbert123 wrote:Here is an example to work with. The intensity values are excessively high, but hidden in the bright light is a simple room scene.

http://www.estructor.altervista.org/hdr/render.exr
I can confirm the crashes when trying to open the HDR panel. However, the normal histogram correction panel works and can be used to reveal the room scene, or to darken the sun and surrounding sky area, so the exr import seems to work in principle.

However, the window and the centre of the sun have infinity as values. Not sure if this is the cause of the HDR panel crash. The histogram correction panel doesn't handle infinity correctly, resulting in a NaN which is rendered as black. Btw., it would be nice if the colour picker float values changed to scientific notation eventually, instead of truncating the numbers.

Cheers

Burkhard.
I agree - a float value option with scientific notation would be nice. As far as I can tell from the experimentation I did, the colour picker and HDR adjustment layer work up to 16bpc half float values, and fail when the intensity values exceed half float.

The sun highest value is around 129.000 for the blue channel. The window is r:88901.78125, g:88901.78125, b:152283.15625 (a blueish light).

I can't say for certain though whether the half float/full float is at work here, of course. Martin will be able to tell us.
/*---------------------------------------------*/
System: Win10 64bit - i7 920@3.6Ghz, p6t Deluxe v1, 48gb (6x8gb RipjawsX), Nvidia GTX1080 8GB, Revodrive X2 240gb, e-mu 1820, 2XSamsung SA850 (2560*1440) and 1XHP2408H 1920*1200 portrait
User avatar
Gerhard Huber
Entwickler
Entwickler
Posts: 3990
Joined: Mon 18 Nov 2002 15:30
Location: Bad Gögging

Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b17

Post by Gerhard Huber »

I am sorry, but most of your theories are not correct
Herbert123 wrote:1) HDR import with extremely high intensity values fails (I am guessing around the 90.000 ~ 100.000 limit).
no, PhotoLine can't load HDR images, that have not the standard "Radiance" header. I will fix this.
Herbert123 wrote:2) EXR import with extremely high intensity values works, BUT: a) the colour dropper cannot display those values correctly; and 2) the HDR adjustment layer crashes Photoline with these type of images.it seems Photoline cannot handle 32bpc images beyond half-float?
PhotoLine has problems with values that are not inside the value range of 32-Bit floats. I will have to check where the problem is, because there should not be such values inside the picture. I think the problem is the EXR format. It has half floats only and the lib seams to create invalid values when the picture value is to big. I have no problem with the HDR picture here (the import is fixed already).
User avatar
Herbert123
Mitglied
Posts: 2009
Joined: Sat 12 May 2012 21:38

Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b17

Post by Herbert123 »

The EXR format does support full float values - the example room file I sent you was saved in Blender with full float values. Is the EXR library you use perhaps an older one?

Here is a screengrab of Blender's EXR export options:
Untitled.png
Perhaps it would be handy to add this option (half float / full float) to the file format options? I do feel EXR ought to support full float values as well. I am encountering these more lately (such as that HDR example).

And thank you for fixing the HDR import so fast :-)
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
/*---------------------------------------------*/
System: Win10 64bit - i7 920@3.6Ghz, p6t Deluxe v1, 48gb (6x8gb RipjawsX), Nvidia GTX1080 8GB, Revodrive X2 240gb, e-mu 1820, 2XSamsung SA850 (2560*1440) and 1XHP2408H 1920*1200 portrait
User avatar
Gerhard Huber
Entwickler
Entwickler
Posts: 3990
Joined: Mon 18 Nov 2002 15:30
Location: Bad Gögging

Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b17

Post by Gerhard Huber »

I use OpenEXR to import EXR files. The web site claims that they can read full floats, but the source code I have doesn't support it. I will check where the problem is.
bkh
Betatester
Posts: 3661
Joined: Thu 26 Nov 2009 22:59

Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b17

Post by bkh »

Auf meinem Rechner verursacht der folgende Workflow Abstürze (sowohl bei der 19.40b17 als auch mit PL 19.03:

1) neues Bild erstellen, 512 x 512, 8 bit RGB ohne Transparenz, Füllfarbe weiß. Füllfarbe und Größe aber anscheinend egal.
2) HG-Ebene duplizieren (habe ich mit dem Icon der Ebenenliste gemacht)
3) bel. Rechtecklasso aufziehen
4) mit dem Ebenenwerkzeug im erweiterten Modus (CMD-Taste) die linke untere Ecke bewegt -> praktisch sofort Absturz. (Stelle ich den erweiterten Modus in den Werkzeugeinstellungen ein, dann kann ich teilweise die Ecke um ein paar Pixel bewegen, bevor der Absturz erfolgt, ebenso bei der rechten unteren Ecke. Die anderen Ecken habe ich nicht probiert.)

Eine kleine Auswahl der Crashlogs schicke ich per E-Mail.

L.G.

Burkhard.
Onkel Hatti
Mitglied
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri 12 Sep 2014 16:58

Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b17

Post by Onkel Hatti »

Ich habe gestern auch mal mit den Pinselkurven rumgespielt.
Nun kann ich im "kleinen" Pinseleditor (Ansicht-Listen-Pinseleditor Alt+Strg+Umschalt+E) den inneren Kurvenradius nicht mehr einstellen.
Der entsprechende Regler ist ausgegraut. Mit dem normalen Pinseleditor (Doppelklick auf den Pinsel) geht es aber.
Ich habe den "kleinen" Pinseleditor immer offen, denn der ist nicht modal, d.h. ich kann schnell was am Pinsel ändern (z.B. mit dem Stift auf dem Grafiktablett) und sofort weiter machen, ohne den Editor schließen zu müssen.

Hab ich was verstellt oder ist das ein Bug?

Hatti
bkh
Betatester
Posts: 3661
Joined: Thu 26 Nov 2009 22:59

Re: Neue Testversion 19.40b17

Post by bkh »

Herbert123 wrote:As far as I can tell from the experimentation I did, the colour picker and HDR adjustment layer work up to 16bpc half float values, and fail when the intensity values exceed half float.
I tried the HDR adjustment panel to scale down a gradient from 0 to some high value, but couldn't see a "half float" problem there – maximum for half float being ≈ 2^16 ≈ 65000. (That would also seem unlikely since PL doesn't have half floats but uses 32 bit "full" floats internally.)

However, there seems to be a banding problem with values in the 100000s (see the attached HDR test.pld, maybe originating from a 16 bit LUT table?), and an overflow problem when float values are in the millions (HDR test 2.pld), possibly related.

Cheers

Burkhard.

PS: the forum software (or the OS X file picker?) still doesn't let me attach .pld files (this used to work), so both files are in the enclosed .zip archive
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.