Version 20

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Herbert123
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Version 20

Post by Herbert123 »

We didn't have a V20 topic yet - here it is :D

I am noticing some slowdowns with files that cause the entire interface of PhotoLine to start to lag and become less responsive. So much, in fact, that I cannot switch to certain tools, and it takes half a second for menus to be displayed. After some experimenting I discovered it is caused by the zoom factor somehow: when I either zoom out completely, or zoom in to a very high level, the slow-downs are less noticeable.

Has anyone else experienced these slowdowns as well?
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System: Win10 64bit - i7 920@3.6Ghz, p6t Deluxe v1, 48gb (6x8gb RipjawsX), Nvidia GTX1080 8GB, Revodrive X2 240gb, e-mu 1820, 2XSamsung SA850 (2560*1440) and 1XHP2408H 1920*1200 portrait
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photoken
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Re: Version 20

Post by photoken »

Herbert123 wrote: We didn't have a V20 topic yet - here it is :D
Why not move this discussion to the General forum? Your observations are not really beta-specific.
Herbert123 wrote:Has anyone else experienced these slowdowns as well?
Not here. But, that's without knowing exactly the circumstances of your problem image....
Ken
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Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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Herbert123
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Re: Version 20

Post by Herbert123 »

I just tested the same file in v19.40, and no slowdown in that version. Which means something did change.

The file is a 5634x3753 CR2 raw file.

I am testing similar files, and they all cause the same slowdown.
/*---------------------------------------------*/
System: Win10 64bit - i7 920@3.6Ghz, p6t Deluxe v1, 48gb (6x8gb RipjawsX), Nvidia GTX1080 8GB, Revodrive X2 240gb, e-mu 1820, 2XSamsung SA850 (2560*1440) and 1XHP2408H 1920*1200 portrait
bkh
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Re: Version 20

Post by bkh »

Herbert123 wrote:I just tested the same file in v19.40, and no slowdown in that version. Which means something did change.

The file is a 5634x3753 CR2 raw file.
What zoom levels are you talking about? Do the problems persist if you convert the raw image to 16 bit RGB? If not, what are your raw import settings?

Fwiw, on OS X with 4000 x 6000 Nikon raws and AHD demosaicing, everything seems fine, despite running on a much older machine.

Cheers

Burkhard.
Martin Huber
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Re: Version 20

Post by Martin Huber »

Herbert123 wrote:I just tested the same file in v19.40, and no slowdown in that version. Which means something did change.

The file is a 5634x3753 CR2 raw file.

I am testing similar files, and they all cause the same slowdown.
And the slowdowns happen with a vanilla 5634x3753 CR2 raw file? So no modifications from your side? If you made modifications, a sample document would be helpful.

Is the slowdown dependent of the visible palettes?

Martin
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Herbert123
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Re: Version 20

Post by Herbert123 »

Hi Martin,

I tested this with various RAW files. Here are three examples:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/62elenxu0vee ... Lzzia?dl=0

All the files open fine, and performance is good. When the adjustment group layer is selected, and zooming in by one level the performance degrades - so much in fact, that I cannot switch to the layer tool by clicking the layer tool icon. Every click on a panel takes half a second (or a bit more) to register.

I closed all panels, and no change. I opened the first file (tree snowy landscape) in v19.40, and experience no slowdowns.

I did not edit the RAW data layer itself. In all files a highpass filter is used to improve the sharpness and saturation a bit. In the second file I added a couple of other layers to re-colour the jacket.

Hope this helps.
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System: Win10 64bit - i7 920@3.6Ghz, p6t Deluxe v1, 48gb (6x8gb RipjawsX), Nvidia GTX1080 8GB, Revodrive X2 240gb, e-mu 1820, 2XSamsung SA850 (2560*1440) and 1XHP2408H 1920*1200 portrait
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Herbert123
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Re: Version 20

Post by Herbert123 »

The following GUI issues in PhotoLine are starting to become somewhat frustrating:

1) One long-standing GUI issue that keeps coming back to haunt me: the HEIGHT of panels fails to automatically adjust to the space available in docked areas.

I switch between various locations for work and different computers with varying screen settings, and my workspace settings do not always fit well. The trouble is that the panels are cut off at the bottom when docked, and there is no way to scroll down. The only solution is to undock the affected panel(s), scale them down in height, and re-dock the panel(s).

That's long-winded and cumbersome, and on smaller screens it is often very finicky to achieve.

The panel heights should always automatically adjust to the available vertical space in a dock.

2) The second long-standing GUI issue: when free-floating panels are in "vertical mode" (meaning: the title bar is displayed on the left side) it is extraordinarily difficult to switch that panel back to a horizontal title bar mode. The only method I discovered is to drag such a panel in a dock with other docked panels that have horizontal title bars, and then drag it back out again. Unless I am overlooking something, no other method exists.

The user ought to be able to switch a free-floating panel to either horizontal or vertical title bar mode with a simple click on a button, or a menu entry in the right mouse-click menu (when clicked on the title bar).

3) This is a very frustrating one for me, and has been the case for years now. The tool settings panel, when free-floating (undocked), cannot be resized, and cuts off controls in the rectangular lasso tool settings: the thirds button is cut off, and the golden ratio button is invisible.

I use these two quite a lot, but I am now forced to dock the tool settings panel first, then switch to golden ratio, and then undock the panel again. I prefer to have a floating tool settings panel.

Aside from this, I feel the tools settings should be responsive, and offer a full-width option so that they can be docked at the bottom or top of the screen, with options arranged horizontally - comparable to Fireworks, InDesign, Photoshop, and other applications.

4) auto guides: when the mouse cursor pointer is EXACTLY positioned on a smart guide that pops up, the smart guide often obstructs the capability to draw a shape. It is as if the smart guides themselves receive a pointer event - in these cases the mouse cursor changes back to the arrow, and it is impossible to draw a line or another shape - even though the respective tool is active.

The work-around seems to be to move the mouse cursor a tiny bit, but it is very frustrating to have to attempt to draw a line multiple times because PhotoLine does not register the first click that starts the drawing of a shape. In particular when working with a Wacom tablet!

5) The Colors panel: the colour tool-tips obstruct clicking a colour. When hovering over a colour swatch, a tooltip appears. This tool-tip obstructs the user from clicking a colour. I prefer small colour swatches, and I often move the mouse downward a bit when clicking (this is something that occurs naturally when working with a Wacom tablet - the hand moves in arcs).

The trouble is that when I click to select a colour, the mouse cursor is moved downward a bit, it hits the tool-tip, and the tool-tip prevents the click from being registered. The tool-tip disappears, and the colour remains unchanged.


Anyway, these are the main GUI issues I encounter on a daily basis, and the loss in time really adds up. I hope they can be addressed in the next update cycle.
/*---------------------------------------------*/
System: Win10 64bit - i7 920@3.6Ghz, p6t Deluxe v1, 48gb (6x8gb RipjawsX), Nvidia GTX1080 8GB, Revodrive X2 240gb, e-mu 1820, 2XSamsung SA850 (2560*1440) and 1XHP2408H 1920*1200 portrait
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photoken
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Re: Version 20

Post by photoken »

Herbert123 wrote: when free-floating panels are in "vertical mode" (meaning: the title bar is displayed on the left side) it is extraordinarily difficult to switch that panel back to a horizontal title bar mode.
++++++ 1,000. :(

I keep getting bitten by this problem -- whether by opening a rarely used panel, or by inadvertently dragging out a docked panel. Like you, I have to spend several minutes futzing around through trial-and-error to restore sanity to the affected panel.
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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photoken
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Re: Version 20

Post by photoken »

Herbert123 wrote:I tested this with various RAW files. Here are three examples:
I downloaded your 71Mb PLD file, and I have no performance issues. No matter which adjustment layer is selected, or what zoom factor I use, or which tool I select....
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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Herbert123
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Re: Version 20

Post by Herbert123 »

photoken wrote:
Herbert123 wrote:I tested this with various RAW files. Here are three examples:
I downloaded your 71Mb PLD file, and I have no performance issues. No matter which adjustment layer is selected, or what zoom factor I use, or which tool I select....
Now, that is strange.

When I select the adjustment layer group, and zoom in one or two steps (with + key) PhotoLine slows down, and I am no longer able to switch from the (for example) text tool to the layer tool. And clicks take ~.6 seconds to register and respond in other areas of the interface. I can replicate this behaviour in various files. I repeat, it doesn't occur in PhotoLine v19.40.

What kind of video card do you have? I am running an Nvidia 590GTX one. Later I will try these files on other machines and report back.
/*---------------------------------------------*/
System: Win10 64bit - i7 920@3.6Ghz, p6t Deluxe v1, 48gb (6x8gb RipjawsX), Nvidia GTX1080 8GB, Revodrive X2 240gb, e-mu 1820, 2XSamsung SA850 (2560*1440) and 1XHP2408H 1920*1200 portrait
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photoken
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Re: Version 20

Post by photoken »

I don't have earlier versions of PL, so I can't do a comparison between them.

This Thinkpad has a Nvidia Quadro K2100M -- standard with the system and I don't recall changing any settings. The video driver is whatever Lenovo installed with the latest system update.

Sorry I can't be of more help, but I'm definitely not seeing any performance degradation like you described. :?
Ken
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Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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Gerhard Huber
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Re: Version 20

Post by Gerhard Huber »

I have no problem also.
I have a low end graphic card.
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Gerhard Huber
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Re: Version 20

Post by Gerhard Huber »

Herbert123 wrote:1) One long-standing GUI issue that keeps coming back to haunt me: the HEIGHT of panels fails to automatically adjust to the space available in docked areas.
2) The second long-standing GUI issue: when free-floating panels are in "vertical mode" (meaning: the title bar is displayed on the left side) it is extraordinarily difficult to switch that panel back to a horizontal title bar mode. The only method I discovered is to drag such a panel in a dock with other docked panels that have horizontal title bars, and then drag it back out again. Unless I am overlooking something, no other method exists.
I made a video to show that this is not a problem. Sorry, it's German.
https://youtu.be/QuvYM6V5aJ0
Martin Huber
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Re: Version 20

Post by Martin Huber »

Herbert123 wrote: tested this with various RAW files. Here are three examples:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/62elenxu0vee ... Lzzia?dl=0

All the files open fine, and performance is good. When the adjustment group layer is selected, and zooming in by one level the performance degrades - so much in fact, that I cannot switch to the layer tool by clicking the layer tool icon. Every click on a panel takes half a second (or a bit more) to register.
The largest file (the 71 MB one) is the fastest here. I see no problems with that.
The other 2 are definitely slower, but there is not a single hot spot for that. The time is equally spent on all layers.
A common factor is, that you are preferring Lab operations. Lab is significantly slower than the native color space of.
DSC_1771.pld has 3 layers with the blend mode Color. Color is relatively slow, too. AFAICS the bottom one of the three doesn't add anything to the result. The other two use a rotated pattern. Deleting the bottom one and replacing the other two by a single one using a solid color (I did see a small difference, but the solid color is more similar to the original) will speed up this document. And if you add the 3 adjustment layers to the background layer, so that they will be cached, this document will be quite fast.
Herbert123 wrote:I closed all panels, and no change. I opened the first file (tree snowy landscape) in v19.40, and experience no slowdowns.
Which version 19.40? There were 18 of them. I tried 19.40B18 and saw now real difference.

Martin
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Herbert123
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Re: Version 20

Post by Herbert123 »

Martin Huber wrote:
Herbert123 wrote: tested this with various RAW files. Here are three examples:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/62elenxu0vee ... Lzzia?dl=0

All the files open fine, and performance is good. When the adjustment group layer is selected, and zooming in by one level the performance degrades - so much in fact, that I cannot switch to the layer tool by clicking the layer tool icon. Every click on a panel takes half a second (or a bit more) to register.
The largest file (the 71 MB one) is the fastest here. I see no problems with that.
The other 2 are definitely slower, but there is not a single hot spot for that. The time is equally spent on all layers.
A common factor is, that you are preferring Lab operations. Lab is significantly slower than the native color space of.
DSC_1771.pld has 3 layers with the blend mode Color. Color is relatively slow, too. AFAICS the bottom one of the three doesn't add anything to the result. The other two use a rotated pattern. Deleting the bottom one and replacing the other two by a single one using a solid color (I did see a small difference, but the solid color is more similar to the original) will speed up this document. And if you add the 3 adjustment layers to the background layer, so that they will be cached, this document will be quite fast.
Herbert123 wrote:I closed all panels, and no change. I opened the first file (tree snowy landscape) in v19.40, and experience no slowdowns.
Which version 19.40? There were 18 of them. I tried 19.40B18 and saw now real difference.

Martin
Tested it again - this time on a fast iMac at the school I teach. Same result: even a 1920x1080 file (no RAW) with a Lab curve adjustment and high pass Lab adjustment layer slows down the response of PhotoLine noticeably. I understand that Lab calculations take time, but the same files do not cause a similar slowdown in an older version.

For now I have solved it by converting the layers to a placeholder layer. The slowdown is then avoided.
/*---------------------------------------------*/
System: Win10 64bit - i7 920@3.6Ghz, p6t Deluxe v1, 48gb (6x8gb RipjawsX), Nvidia GTX1080 8GB, Revodrive X2 240gb, e-mu 1820, 2XSamsung SA850 (2560*1440) and 1XHP2408H 1920*1200 portrait