Quiet, isnt it?

[greenmorpher]

Everyone waiting for the next upgrade?

Cheers, Geoff

[Herbert123]

Yes, assuredly so. The upcoming version includes a number of eye-catching new features, and I am going to shout about those in the online world!

[photoken]

Yep. Although this general user forum tends to be rather quiet, work continues on the betas -- new features are being tested and discussed, problems reported and fixed, etc. All the usual good work.

[bruce1951]

As noted in another thread I've been having some RunTime issues. I was sent a link to v20 to try. So far I haven't had a single issue with the RunTime error. Yes a couple of other tweaks also noted!

Silence on a forum is usually a good sign that there are lots of happy users.

regards

[Herbert123]

Silence on a forum is usually a good sign that there are lots of happy users.

regards

Agreed, I think this is (at least partly) true - the forums for Lightwave and Modo are always quite busy with users asking questions, but recently the number of "complainer" posts have increased quite a lot. And the majority of users tend to remain silent, unless they have issues with the software, which they, or their social circle, cannot resolve.

On the other hand, Photoline still does not have a very large user base, as far as I am aware. You know, I am curious how many users actually use Photoline at the moment.

[bruce1951]

Herbert123 ask the question on a forum such as DPreview. Good chance you'll get silence.

In reality I believe that the vast majority of users of editing software are using just a few percent of which ever editor they use. Few folks actually venture into 'real' editing. Then the Adobe crowd come alight and proclaim that the earth is still flat and that anyone contemplating venturing forth will simply slip off the edge into oblivion.

Corel and PSP suffer a similar 'problem'. But even they have a following that ignores the features of Photoline. (I hedge my bet by using both PL and PSP).

But we have to remember that many folks still drive Fords and Chevys. Goodness some folks still drive VW's. These folks simply don't explore the available options.
The problem is two fold. First the producers of the software have to promote their product. But secondly, and IMHO most importantly, the user has to want to expand their skills. Plodding along with Elements or Lightroom keeps many folks happy simply because they are ignorant of the alternatives in the market place.

regards

[photoken]

Yeah, I guess the motivation for using or not using a particular piece of software is as varied as the billions of people on this planet....

123 is correct that most people do not post messages unless they're really having trouble. This doesn't mean that they're completely uninterested in the product, just that they're content to quietly browse the comments to glean an interesting tidbit every so often.

I don't quite agree with Bruce, however. I think that those of us using PL (and posting messages here) are very much in a minority -- we are folks who intensely use image editing software, and it's easy to forget that for so many, many people editing their photo is an infinitesimally tiny part of their lives.

It's like me with cooking. I've got some dishes that I thoroughly enjoy eating and I've got them to the point where the preparation is as quick as possible and the utensils used are kept to a minimum. That's because cooking isn't a very important part of my life. On the other hand, someone who's absolutely fascinated by cooking will not mind spending a lot more time and effort to get the dish as terrific as possible.

[Herbert123]

True, the market share of power users is a relatively tiny one. Most users (whether professionals or not) tend to stick to what they know or really need, and rarely venture outward.

Photoline may need to focus a smite more on several niche markets to make a real dent. For example, the loss of Adobe Fireworks left a gap that is still felt by many web developers/front-end designers. Photoline is almost there, but is still missing a couple of essential features to attract that crowd:
1) a library panel to manage re-usable elements between documents, and the library items should remain linked to the instances. Edit a library item, and all instances in all documents update.
2) page templates. Even a simple option to assign layers to all pages would suffice.
3) guides that can be placed in a layer.
4) improved web export - mainly a way to assign export settings for layers and layer groups, which should include automated and manual crop settings. Similar to Photoshop's Generator, but easier to use, with a more coherent user interface. And an option to preview the settings in the main view - perhaps even on a per layer/layer group basis. That would be quite unique.

Whether people like it or not, mobile and web export is crucial, and Photoline has fallen behind in this respect. And the web front-end market is huge. Additionally, many front-end / web / mobile developers and designers just don't like Photoshop that much anymore. Many use other tools, but almost everyone feels things could be improved.

Definitely an open market for Photoline there. I hope more front-end design functionality will be implemented by the next version

[photoken]

123, not to argue about which features PL should or shouldn't have, I'm just noting that there will be competition for Web/Mobile development from Microsoft, at least. I've just installed their free Visual Studio 2015 Community Edition and it's got a stunning amount of features for developing desktop programs, Web sites, mobile apps, and stuff I haven't even heard about, yet. It even includes the Community Edition of Blend for creating and debugging User Interfaces.

[Herbert123]

123, not to argue about which features PL should or shouldn't have, I'm just noting that there will be competition for Web/Mobile development from Microsoft, at least. I've just installed their free Visual Studio 2015 Community Edition and it's got a stunning amount of features for developing desktop programs, Web sites, mobile apps, and stuff I haven't even heard about, yet. It even includes the Community Edition of Blend for creating and debugging User Interfaces.

Yeah, I know. Things move fast in front-end dev. You do not even know the half of it - I teach that stuff at a couple of places, including a technical university. That is why I said Photoline is losing its relevance as a web graphics tool - but it can be remedied. SVG support is great compared to other products, as is the quality of its output.

We'll see how it goes.

[Herbert123]

Btw, if anyone is interested in visual application development for Windows, Mac, iOS, Android, Windows Universal apps: Humble Bundle has a nice $15 deal on Clickteam Fusion Developer edition with all export modules. No programming required
https://www.humblebundle.com/clickteam-fusion-bundle

[bruce1951]

I think there is always a huge risk in any product trying to be something for everyone. Be it editing software or any other product. All too often companies will loose direction simply because they lost track of their core business. I've seen it in a number of industries. Specialists that branch out in an effort to encompass a larger market. In the end they fell over simply because they forgot what got them there in the first place.

The danger of a long wish list for Photoline is that it may soon becomes a bloated program that tries to do everything but ends up doing nothing very well. Corel PSP is a good example where a 'great' consumer level editor has become an over weight piece of software that has become so bloated with 'fluff' that it is struggling to meet performance requirements and features that 'some' consumers are demanding. If PL was to ask me for an opinion, highly unlikely, I would tell them to do less but ensure that what they do do is better than what anyone else does.

As an aside, the dominance of PS in the commercial editing world will always make it all but impossible for software like PL to gain anything other than a small market share. It may not be what we want to hear but it's just a simple fact.

I'm a happy camper combining the best of PL with the best of PSP. I'm not an 'expert'. I'm not a full time photographer or editor. But I do enough work, (4 million+ prints and licenses), to know that what I want is a good reliable editor.

Wish list? Expand the Plugin and External editor features. That way we, the consumers, can pick and choose what we need.

regards

[photoken]

Bruce,
Good points about programs trying to do everything, and I agree with you.

The bottom line is that, after three years, I've come to really trust the PL developers. I've seen any number of requests (including some of mine ) that have not been incorporated because the requests wouldn't be appropriate for a fast, precise image editor. That's OK in my book.

[mwenz]

Bruce,
Good points about programs trying to do everything, and I agree with you.

...the requests wouldn't be appropriate for a fast, precise image editor.

But it's not just a fast, precise image editor. It is nearly everything and the kitchen sink. Which is why I haven't personally liked the overall direction as regards trying to also be a vector, publishing, etc., etc., application.

[photoken]

But it's not just a fast, precise image editor. It is nearly everything and the kitchen sink. Which is why I haven't personally liked the overall direction as regards trying to also be a vector, publishing, etc., etc., application.

I think that because PL has such an outstanding array of features for image editing, it is approaching the point of exhausting the potential image editing features that could be added. Even Photoshop is now filling itself up with esoteric and marginal image editing features.

That's why I like seeing PL add features for image creation (drawing and painting), as well as features that enhance the use of images (publishing, etc.).