Wish list!

Here everybody can post his problems with PhotoLine
bruce1951
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Wish list!

Beitrag von bruce1951 »

I'm just thinking out loud here folks.

I often want to repeat a 'style/look' that I have achieved with a file. But the problem is that without writing down every step I can't repeat all the steps. I know there is the Undo list but what about History? Somethinh I could save. So my thinking went one step further. Is it possible to record all the steps and save them in a side car file? Yes some folks like scripts. But those aren't as flexible.

If I convert a NEF in Nikon's NX-D, NX-D writes a side car file that can be used later on if that file is once again called up. But what if I was to edit a tiff or a PLD file, in Photoline, and save it and that file had a sidecar file. Then later on, if required, that sidecar file could loaded and applied to another file? Sort of like a sidecar preset. Am I making sense? Maybe if the side car file is loaded and then each step could be clicked on one by one. Like a set of instructions. Save the sidecar files, rename them and then load them up like one big preset.

Is it something that the good folks at Photoline would consider as a future feature?

Ok I'll stop day dreaming now. But wouldn't it be nice?

regards
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photoken
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Re: Wish list!

Beitrag von photoken »

I don't like the idea of a sidecar file for that because I don't want to clutter up my directories with all those things, and they're a PITA when renaming, copying or moving the original image file.

I wholeheartedly agree with you about PL needing a "real" History panel instead of the Undo List:
http://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.ph ... ory#p27705
As I mentioned there, if the History Panel had an option to save the selected steps as a PL action, you'd have your wish.

If that sounds familiar to ya, yes the History panel in PSP is one of the few things I liked about it. :wink:
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
bkh
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Re: Wish list!

Beitrag von bkh »

bruce1951 hat geschrieben:If I convert a NEF in Nikon's NX-D, NX-D writes a side car file that can be used later on if that file is once again called up. But what if I was to edit a tiff or a PLD file, in Photoline, and save it and that file had a sidecar file.
In order to do so, raw editors impose severe restrictions on what you can edit. They force you into a non-destructive workflow.

If you restrict yourself to working with just one adjustment layer (several adjustments, of course) in PL, you can easily create adjustment layer presets which are similar to styles. This is still more flexible than a simple raw developer since you can apply adjustments in arbitrary order, but probably very similar to what you are looking for. You can also create presets from adjustment layers in existing PL files.

Or, as long as you restrict yourself to non-destructive editing, you can simply copy and paste your layer stack onto another image (ok, maybe you'll have to scale the layers). The PL file itself contains all the necessary information.
photoken hat geschrieben:As I mentioned there, if the History Panel had an option to save the selected steps as a PL action, you'd have your wish.
I agree that this would be useful – at least as a starting point. Simply using an editing history usually isn't efficient because one would repeat all those try-and-error steps one usually does, and requires a lot of cleanup. Also, I doubt that recording painting operations makes much sense – in any case, it would make huge action files. In non-destructive editing, you only record the final settings, and thus you don't need the cleanup step.

Cheers

Burkhard.
bruce1951
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Re: Wish list!

Beitrag von bruce1951 »

Ken you're hard to please!! :D Sidecar files can be put in their own sub folder. Renaming could be done at the time of naming the main file. I would rather have a solution that requires putting up with naming the file than having no option at all.

bkh I only used the NX-D raw converter as a simple example.

We have to be careful not to over think this. Recording every brush stoke, as per the Undo, is not logical. Heck I sometimes use hundreds of brush strokes. The way I see it it would only involve the 'main' actions. Things like brush strokes and even brush settings don't need to be recorded. Just the basic steps.

I know I'm wishing for a lotto win here. But just maybe there is a seed of an idea here that could grow into something that can record steps that can be applied at a later time to another file. Even the simple ability to save a History file would be a start.

regards
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photoken
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Re: Wish list!

Beitrag von photoken »

bruce1951 hat geschrieben: Sidecar files can be put in their own sub folder. Renaming could be done at the time of naming the main file.
Ehh. I'd rather keep my life simple by not having to deal with those sidecar files.
bkh hat geschrieben:Simply using an editing history usually isn't efficient because one would repeat all those try-and-error steps one usually does, and requires a lot of cleanup.
Yes. That's why I mentioned that the History panel must allow non-linear selections and undo. Then it's only a matter of selecting the "good" steps and creating an action from them.
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
bruce1951
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Re: Wish list!

Beitrag von bruce1951 »

Keep it simple folks!

How about a simple History file? Sidecar file!!! Save every step into a simple text file. Then the user can choose how they use that information. (Gosh I could even edit that text file into a nice set of instruction that I could sell). My guess it that 80+% of the steps I take I undo. So imagine how an automatic application would or wouldn't work. Yikes. Just being able to recount how I got a result would be great. Even if I have to scroll through a long text file.

Ken naming a sidecar file is far more efficient than trying to 'guess' the steps I took to repeat a style.

regards
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photoken
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Re: Wish list!

Beitrag von photoken »

Bruce,
As Burkhard pointed out, you can create a single "group" adjustment layer and add as many individual adjustments (with their settings) to that "group" adjustment layer. That "group" adjustment layer can be saved as a preset to instantly apply to any other image. I use that technique for my RAW images -- I've created a basic preset for my camera with all the adjustments I need to apply to any other image to get to a good starting point.

If the image style you want to reproduce also includes steps like painting or creating vector shapes, then the History panel I'm proposing would let you save only the "good" steps as an action.

No need to rename sidecar files, no need to duplicate sidecar files for other images, no need to futz around with multiple files when moving the original image file to another directory, etc. Simple. :D
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
bkh
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Re: Wish list!

Beitrag von bkh »

bruce1951 hat geschrieben:How about a simple History file? Sidecar file!!! Save every step into a simple text file. Then the user can choose how they use that information. (Gosh I could even edit that text file into a nice set of instruction that I could sell). My guess it that 80+% of the steps I take I undo. So imagine how an automatic application would or wouldn't work. Yikes. Just being able to recount how I got a result would be great. Even if I have to scroll through a long text file.
Just record your steps as an action. When reviewing the recorded action, you can re-open/review all the settings/panels you used on your way, and don't just get text files full of cryptic values. All you have to remember is to turn on recording before you start editing. (But remember: not everything can be saved as an action, some editing will usually be needed, although PL has improved a lot in this regard.) However, I don't think I would need such an action recorded (as a sidecar file or as part of the PLD) for each file I create. But then I do use non-destructive editing almost exclusively, so the PLD file itself already contains all the information to re-create the image.

As I said, I agree with Ken that it might be useful to record the action steps in parallel with the history, and to be able to save a sequence of steps to an action.

Cheers

Burkhard.
bruce1951
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Re: Wish list!

Beitrag von bruce1951 »

Thanks guys. If you hear a funny noise it will only be me having 'fun' learning actions. :?

regards
bruce1951
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Re: Wish list!

Beitrag von bruce1951 »

Hey guys this is fun! Why didn't you guys know I didn't know this stuff?
Forget this thread. I've found what I'm looking for. Thanks a lot.

Now all I have to do is remember what I did and how I did do it!!!

regards
bruce1951
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Re: Wish list!

Beitrag von bruce1951 »

OK one silly question. I like to save frequently. Is there a way to have Actions ignore certain functions such as Save and Save As?

I know I can go back and delete these actions but if I could avoid them in the first place it would be better. (I found out the hard way that it will save over a file. Ooops).

I was surprised to find actions even worked with plugins etc.

regards
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photoken
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Re: Wish list!

Beitrag von photoken »

bruce1951 hat geschrieben:OK one silly question. I like to save frequently. Is there a way to have Actions ignore certain functions such as Save and Save As?
Not that I know of, but that might be a good feature request: An option in the Preferences to have Actions ignore Save, Save As and possibly Undo also....
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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photoken
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Re: Wish list!

Beitrag von photoken »

bkh hat geschrieben:(...)
not everything can be saved as an action, some editing will usually be needed
(...)
it might be useful to record the action steps in parallel with the history, and to be able to save a sequence of steps to an action.
Yes, I'm thinking that the proposed History panel would be something like a combination of the Undo List and the Actions panel running in perpetual "Recording" mode.

That History panel would replace the Undo List, but I think keeping the Actions panel is valuable.
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
bruce1951
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Re: Wish list!

Beitrag von bruce1951 »

All the options of recording, be it as History, Sidecar files or Actions need a change of workflow. It's a matter of unlearning old habits. Actions seems ideal. However you need to start a new action at the very beginning without knowing if you will ever need it later on. But it's easy to delete what you don't want than it is to create what you have just missed.

A nuther question. My play button is invisible until I mouse over it. Is that 'normal'?

regards
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photoken
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Re: Wish list!

Beitrag von photoken »

bruce1951 hat geschrieben: My play button is invisible until I mouse over it. Is that 'normal'?
Sort of. The buttons have a mouse over highlight. That Play button is black, and might be invisible if you're using a black background for the UI.

Now that you mention it, I'll post a separate feature request for the icon visibility when using a very dark UI in Black Mode....
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.