Stacking 10 images in P'shop to raise rez

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greenmorpher
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Re: Stacking 10 images in P'shop to raise rez

Beitrag von greenmorpher »

The guy <i>has</i> come back with some more information in another thread. To be frank, I am not sure what he is saying. If anyone can shed some light (sic - there we go again! LOL) on it, I would be grateful.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/58984895

As for the thread's trajectory -- I look at it this way: I started A thread; the fact that it went off in interesting directions after tackling the original subject was a bonus! I find threads that run off the straight and narrow are often the most interesting and informative. They tend to answer questions I didn't even know needed to be or could be asked. :lol:

Cheers, Geoff
cathodeRay
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Re: Stacking 10 images in P'shop to raise rez

Beitrag von cathodeRay »

Geoff - absolutely agree about interesting trajectories!

The dpreview posters seem to be a bunch of grumpy - maybe even angry - ol'men with a touch of the Trump time blues, but there is one very useful link to an excellent guide on petapixel that, at least to me, made complete sense. In essence, the technique uses multiple random samples and then averages them to get a more accurate estimate of the original (true) scene. No different in concept from taking a number of (random) measurements of your height and averaging them to get a better (more accurate, as in closer to your real) height. Computationally it's huge - might need to borrow the Met Office's super-computer to get the sums done, but the principle seems clear enough to me. I also like the 'neatness' of using random hand held camera shake as the basis for the sampling - one in the eye (or do I mean sensor?) for those who want folks to pay $$$^2 for in camera technology.

cR

PS I might also add that the excellent petapixel guide is also very good at dealing with managing expectations of what can be achieved as well as covering limitations, notably the problems caused by any movement not of the camera but in the scene itself
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Hoogo
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Re: Stacking 10 images in P'shop to raise rez

Beitrag von Hoogo »

greenmorpher hat geschrieben:The guy <i>has</i> come back with some more information in another thread. To be frank, I am not sure what he is saying. If anyone can shed some light (sic - there we go again! LOL) on it, I would be grateful.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/58984895...
What I understand:
He describes the "usual" method of increasing the resolution: stitching. And he describes all the downsides he experienced with it. It takes lots of RAM, it takes lots of time, the automatic blending that PS can do with a stack of pictures (here's the stack again...) is not always good enough, and when you've got the result you wished you had taken even more pictures to reduce noise even more...

Still you can be somewhat proud to create the best picture possible with your sensor and technology in terms of resolution and noise. That's the life of pixel peepers ;)

And he ends with "Some days like everyone else I'm just lazy.". I guess that's about the super resolution of the Olympus camera.
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bkh
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Re: Stacking 10 images in P'shop to raise rez

Beitrag von bkh »

greenmorpher hat geschrieben:The guy <i>has</i> come back with some more information in another thread. To be frank, I am not sure what he is saying. If anyone can shed some light (sic - there we go again! LOL) on it, I would be grateful.
Sounds like a combination of HDR and panorama – essentially, you do a panorama but in each direction, you take photos at different exposures. Problem is that you have to do the panorama stitching and the hdr merge at one step because panorama programs don't usually handle hdr files, and panoramas at different exposures can't easily be aligned.

Anyway, if you don't have Photoshop, try Hugin. It does not try to load and process all the images at once, so it probably needs fewer computer resources than PS. Of course, it also takes a lot of time to generate the final image …

Cheers

Burkhard.
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Herbert123
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Re: Stacking 10 images in P'shop to raise rez

Beitrag von Herbert123 »

photoken hat geschrieben:Ray,
I like your explanation of what I was trying to say. :)
cathodeRay hat geschrieben: At a data level, the data is just neutral - in doesn't care what it means. It is then us humans (or perhaps machines programmed by us to see like us) that read information from patterns in the data.
I couldn't agree more!
In that sense it is interesting to take this conversation one step further.

I realized at a young age that with sufficient time a limited range of coloured pixels (say 1024x768@8bit), when randomly generating a new pattern and avoiding that same pattern to reoccur, will in time produce every possible image. This includes photos of Napoleon Bonaparte hitting on Josephine, Ken arriving at the top of the Mount Everest riding a Velociraptor, and the entire history of life. Images of all events (past, present, and future) will be generated, as well as all alternative timelines. Every text, movie, formula, recipes, anything: all will be randomly generated at some point.

The mind-boggling fact is that such a range of pixels is not infinite, but limited. I am obviously not the only one to have arrived at this conclusion:
https://petapixel.com/2013/02/07/exhibi ... hotograph/
http://jeffreythompson.org/every-possib ... ograph.php
If you think about it, any digital photograph is simply a finite collection of pixels, with each one showing a specific color. There are also only a finite number of colors each pixel on a display can be. Thus, there are only a finite number of photographs that could possibly exist. An unfathomably large number, but finite nonetheless.
Interestingly enough, an extremely limited collection of 15x10 pixels and only 8 levels of gray will take 46,138,562,195,008,110,600,774,753,760,087,749,172,181,189,607,929,628,058,548,517,099,604,563,033,706,075 years to complete (well, it depends somewhat on the speed of the machine used, obviously). The universe is supposedly around 13,770,000,000 years old - something I think is incorrect, seeing that the "great wall" structures in our universe could not possibly have formed in that time (and no, black energy and black matter has not been found yet - merely 'calculated' on false premises, in my opinion).

Anyway: as Ray already noted, consciousness is the defining factor in sifting the meaningful images from the noise. Or we could write an algorithm that automatically excludes "noise" up to an extent.

Strangely enough, a finite range of randomized pixels may easily contain the entire body of the existence of Earth and its inhabitants from the beginning till the very end. Only consciousness is able to identify this information, though. Which makes one wonder about the nature of the universe and the role of consciousness in it.
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greenmorpher
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Re: Stacking 10 images in P'shop to raise rez

Beitrag von greenmorpher »

bkh hat geschrieben: Fr 20 Jan 2017 18:56
greenmorpher hat geschrieben:The guy <i>has</i> come back with some more information in another thread. To be frank, I am not sure what he is saying. If anyone can shed some light (sic - there we go again! LOL) on it, I would be grateful.
Sounds like a combination of HDR and panorama – essentially, you do a panorama but in each direction, you take photos at different exposures. Problem is that you have to do the panorama stitching and the hdr merge at one step because panorama programs don't usually handle hdr files, and panoramas at different exposures can't easily be aligned.

Anyway, if you don't have Photoshop, try Hugin. It does not try to load and process all the images at once, so it probably needs fewer computer resources than PS. Of course, it also takes a lot of time to generate the final image …

Cheers

Burkhard.
Thanks, Burkhard. I suspect the guy is prevaricating for some reason -- possibly because he claims are specious or because he thinks so much of his process that he won't reveal it to anyone. Theoretically, he could do an HDR panorama by taking the panorama at various exposures, then separating them out and making panoramas of the like exposure shorts, then combining those panoramas to make HDR pix. All fine, except that he has sea with serious wavelets occupying a significant part of one of his key photos.

I think we can let the matter rest there.

Cheers, Geoff
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greenmorpher
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Re: Stacking 10 images in P'shop to raise rez

Beitrag von greenmorpher »

Herbert, a wonderful post. It will help me sleep all the more soundly tonight after today's 7.9 earthquake during which the house groaned and moaned at every joint as it grossly deformed around us, and when (at the third spasm) we lost our nerve and ran outside, the ground under our feet was like the heaving deck of a ship in unfriendly seas.

I could <i>see</i> the waves going past, just like the sea at the beach! :shock:

Cheers, Geoff