Automatic corrections

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MikeFromMesa
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Automatic corrections

Beitrag von MikeFromMesa »

I generally use a workflow tool like Dxo Optics Pro for general photo processing and use PhotoLine or some other editor for specialized adjustments so I have not previously used the Automatic Corrections adjustment at all. But, since I have been testing the latest version of PL I decided to give it a try, out of curiosity, and I am a bit puzzled.

If I load a jpg and use the Automatic Corrections I get a clear, but subtle, change in the image. If I load a raw image and use it, the result is much more ambiguous. If I select the background layer and then use the Automatic Corrections button the change I get is often quite dramatic and undesired. Here is an example.

Before:

AutoCorrections-Before.jpg
AutoCorrections-Before.jpg (124.64 KiB) 4335 mal betrachtet

After

AutoCorrections-After.jpg
AutoCorrections-After.jpg (91.53 KiB) 4335 mal betrachtet

If I select the Raw Adjustments layer instead I get no noticeable change, even if the unadjusted image is badly in need to change. This leads me to a couple of questions.

1) Is the Auto Corrections Filter only for use on jpgs?

2) If it is also for raws, should the background layer be used? or the Raw Adjustments layer?

3) Is there any way to control, via Preferences, how the tool works?

4) It seems possible to create an action that would at least select the correct layer for a raw file and load some adjustment layers so that adjusting an image would be a bit faster and easier. Is there any way to automatically run an action when a raw file is loaded? I did not see that in the Preferences Panel.
MikeFromMesa
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Re: Automatic corrections

Beitrag von MikeFromMesa »

Well, it looks like a raw image should be flattened before this filter is used. If that is done, then the filter seems to have the correct effect.

Live and learn (hopefully).
bkh
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Re: Automatic corrections

Beitrag von bkh »

MikeFromMesa hat geschrieben: So 24 Sep 2017 16:27 4) It seems possible to create an action that would at least select the correct layer for a raw file and load some adjustment layers so that adjusting an image would be a bit faster and easier. Is there any way to automatically run an action when a raw file is loaded? I did not see that in the Preferences Panel.
In the preferences panel, pick File -> Raw and select the desired action.

Cheers

Burkhard.
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photoken
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Re: Automatic corrections

Beitrag von photoken »

MikeFromMesa hat geschrieben: So 24 Sep 2017 17:47 Well, it looks like a raw image should be flattened before this filter is used. If that is done, then the filter seems to have the correct effect.
Yes. That is because applying the AutoCorrection to the unmodified RAW image screws up the image info used by the RAW adjustment layer.
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
MikeFromMesa
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Re: Automatic corrections

Beitrag von MikeFromMesa »

bkh hat geschrieben: So 24 Sep 2017 22:59 In the preferences panel, pick File -> Raw and select the desired action.
Yes. I see that now. Thank you.
MikeFromMesa
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Re: Automatic corrections

Beitrag von MikeFromMesa »

photoken hat geschrieben: Mo 25 Sep 2017 00:20 Yes. That is because applying the AutoCorrection to the unmodified RAW image screws up the image info used by the RAW adjustment layer.
OK. Is there any processing reason for me to not flatten the image at the start of processing?
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photoken
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Re: Automatic corrections

Beitrag von photoken »

MikeFromMesa hat geschrieben: Mo 25 Sep 2017 01:59 OK. Is there any processing reason for me to not flatten the image at the start of processing?
Probably.

(This is one of those areas where you'll have to do some experimenting to see what works best for you.)

I prefer to make all my "basic" RAW adjustments in the RAW adjustment layer -- I've created a custom set of adjustments for my camera, and it's a simple click to apply everything at once to the RAW image:
raw adjustments.jpg
raw adjustments.jpg (37.91 KiB) 4274 mal betrachtet
With that RAW adjustment layer as a child of the original image, the layer stack is very simple, and I can easily add additional adjustment layers when needed without having to worry about screwing up my basic RAW adjustments.
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
MikeFromMesa
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Re: Automatic corrections

Beitrag von MikeFromMesa »

photoken hat geschrieben: Di 26 Sep 2017 01:22 Probably.

(This is one of those areas where you'll have to do some experimenting to see what works best for you.)

I prefer to make all my "basic" RAW adjustments in the RAW adjustment layer -- I've created a custom set of adjustments for my camera, and it's a simple click to apply everything at once to the RAW image:
raw adjustments.jpg
With that RAW adjustment layer as a child of the original image, the layer stack is very simple, and I can easily add additional adjustment layers when needed without having to worry about screwing up my basic RAW adjustments.
I assume each of these layers are set to their default values.

I did something like this as well, although not nearly as complete. I created an action to add the Histogram Correction, Curves, Exposure and Sharpening layers, but then I found the Automatic Corrections and that took me down a different path. What I have found is that the Automatic Corrections sometimes works well and sometimes does not, so it was better to go back to the manual process. It generally yielded a better result although sometimes the Automatic Corrections was spot on.
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photoken
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Re: Automatic corrections

Beitrag von photoken »

MikeFromMesa hat geschrieben: Di 26 Sep 2017 02:36 I assume each of these layers are set to their default values.
No, it's just the opposite. Each of the layers was added to provide the necessary corrections for my camera, and the values in those layers are chosen to specifically enhance the RAW images from my camera.
MikeFromMesa hat geschrieben: Di 26 Sep 2017 02:36 I did something like this as well, although not nearly as complete. I created an action to add the Histogram Correction, Curves, Exposure and Sharpening layers, but then I found the Automatic Corrections and that took me down a different path. What I have found is that the Automatic Corrections sometimes works well and sometimes does not, so it was better to go back to the manual process. It generally yielded a better result although sometimes the Automatic Corrections was spot on.
Like I said, I prefer to use the RAW adjustment layer and its ability to save and recall all the adjustments I want as one adjustment layer, rather than creating an action to add many individual layers to the stack.

For me, and this is just my personal bias, I consider the Automatic Correction to be a nice "quick and mindless" enhancement for the JPGs from my little cell phone. For pictures from my "real" camera, the manual process is much superior.
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
Klonk
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Re: Automatic corrections

Beitrag von Klonk »

Maybe this is a dumb question, but how do you fixthe content of the RAW adjustment layer?

I always have to add e.g. adaptive sharpen for each RAW I open.

I think I found it: Save it as Preset?
CU Charly
MikeFromMesa
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Re: Automatic corrections

Beitrag von MikeFromMesa »

photoken hat geschrieben: Di 26 Sep 2017 02:58 No, it's just the opposite. Each of the layers was added to provide the necessary corrections for my camera, and the values in those layers are chosen to specifically enhance the RAW images from my camera.
Perhaps I have some basic misunderstanding of how adjustment layers work, or perhaps I misunderstand your statement, but I do not see how this is possible.

My understanding is that when you add an adjustment layer, the layer itself contains no adjustments, and you must change the parameters to make the adjustment fit that image and its peculiarities. For example, if a add a Histogram Adjustment layer (and I do to every raw image I open) it shows me the histogram for that image and I have to adjust the black and white sliders to make that image look correct. Those adjustments differ from image to image so I do not see how I can create a single preset adjustment layer and have it work for all of my raw images. That is what I meant when I wrote that I assumed these layers were unadjusted - that is, that they were unadjusted when automatically added and then you adjusted each one as needed.

I don't see how it can work any other way, but perhaps I am missing something central here.
Klonk
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Re: Automatic corrections

Beitrag von Klonk »

I guess it is meant the following way:

Some defaults for raw images. Let's say your photo is ISO 800 then you usually have (or can set) some specific denoise settings.
maybe the same with your lens to correct distortion. This way you could save (I guess in a preset) all settings that are common to all your raw images without applying them again and again.

This happens more or less "automatic" when defined in the raw adjustment layer.

What happens automatically by default in the raw adjustment layer is a histogram correction, nothing else.

Basically i does not make any difference whether you do all changes in the raw adjustment layer or in additional working layers. But in this case you should have an image to work with by either flattening before or simply grouping background and raw adjustment layer.
CU Charly
bruce1951
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Re: Automatic corrections

Beitrag von bruce1951 »

Just a comment on the 'automatic' component of this thread. I never use 'automatic' anything. Occasionally I start with a preset. But nothing automatic. My simple logic is that every file is different and needs different settings/adjustments to get it to how I want it. It seems counter productive to use automatic and then re adjust to suit my end goal.

Just my opinion.

bruce
MikeFromMesa
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Re: Automatic corrections

Beitrag von MikeFromMesa »

bruce1951 hat geschrieben: Di 26 Sep 2017 16:05 Just a comment on the 'automatic' component of this thread. I never use 'automatic' anything. Occasionally I start with a preset. But nothing automatic. My simple logic is that every file is different and needs different settings/adjustments to get it to how I want it. It seems counter productive to use automatic and then re adjust to suit my end goal.
I do not disagree. There were two things at work here.

First, I was curious as to what the Automatic Corrections would do, and hence the tests. Curiosity has led me down more than one wrong path, but also has led me to some new information that I would not have had had I not followed my curiosity. Given that, i wanted to see what it could give me or, alternately, take away.

Second, even with some kind of automatic correction (as, for example, you get in LightRoom or Dxo Optics Pro), that is still only a starting point and is not the final result. As you say, all photos are different, but some things do make some kind of sense for all. Any adjustment that can position and the white and black sliders to at least touch the outer bounds of the histogram is probably a move in the right direction. It may well not be final, but you can still make any further adjustments you want.
MikeFromMesa
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Re: Automatic corrections

Beitrag von MikeFromMesa »

MikeFromMesa hat geschrieben: Di 26 Sep 2017 20:29
bruce1951 hat geschrieben: Di 26 Sep 2017 16:05 Just a comment on the 'automatic' component of this thread. I never use 'automatic' anything. Occasionally I start with a preset. But nothing automatic. My simple logic is that every file is different and needs different settings/adjustments to get it to how I want it. It seems counter productive to use automatic and then re adjust to suit my end goal.
I do not disagree. There were two things at work here.

First, I was curious as to what the Automatic Corrections would do, and hence the tests. Curiosity has led me down more than one wrong path, but also has led me to some new information that I would not have had had I not followed my curiosity. Given that, i wanted to see what it could give me or, alternately, take away.

Second, even with some kind of automatic correction (as, for example, you get in LightRoom or Dxo Optics Pro), that is still only a starting point and is not the final result. As you say, all photos are different, but some things do make some kind of sense for all. Any adjustment that can position and the white and black sliders to at least touch the outer bounds of the histogram is probably a move in the right direction. It may well not be final, but you can still make any further adjustments you want.

Similarly if you can add de-noise adjustments based on the iso of an image you again have a good starting point. Other adjustment layers may also help, but everything can be adjusted further to make the photo better.
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