Color Palette Data Format?

[Koyaanis]

After reading how one person was able to import color palettes from GIMP into PL32, and my not being able to do it, I started to look through all my graphic-editor data sets. To see if I could find some other palettes that might be able to be imported into PL32 directly. Well, I didn't find any. But I did find that some brands of software had their palette data in simple TXT file formats.

I looked at PL32's palette format, and it's not very clear what each data position stands for. If I knew what PL32's format was, I might be able to convert some other palette sets for it.

So, could anyone tell me what each number in each line stands for in PL32's format?
PL32's Palette Format:

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"COLOR0"="v2;1;0;0;0;0;0;0% Deckung;";
"COLOR1"="v2;1;0;0;0;255;255;schwarz;";
"COLOR2"="v2;11;0;0;255;255;255;weiß;";
"COLOR3"="v2;1;128;128;128;255;0;grau;";
"COLOR4"="v2;1;255;0;0;255;255;rot;";
"COLOR5"="v2;1;0;255;0;255;255;grün;";
"COLOR6"="v2;1;0;0;255;255;255;blau;";
"COLOR7"="v2;1;0;255;255;255;255;cyan;";
"COLOR8"="v2;1;255;0;255;255;255;magenta;";
"COLOR9"="v2;1;255;255;0;255;255;gelb;";

Here's some samples of various other program's palette files. I'll have to convert these by hand if I do this. Some of them, like the Pantone palettes have thousands of lines, so ... if anyone knows of a better way to convert or import these files, I'd be happy to hear of it! I have a lot of other programs, like PS, PhotoImpact, etc, but all the other program's palette files seem to be in some special format, not a simple txt file like these others.

Denoba Canvas Format:

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ROWS 1
COLS 10
WIDTH 32
HEIGHT 32
TEXTHEIGHT 0
SPACING 1
R: 224, G:103, B:000 HV:0.00, SV:0.00, VV:0.00 
R: 196, G:000, B:037 HV:0.00, SV:0.00, VV:0.00 
R: 209, G:043, B:117 HV:0.00, SV:0.00, VV:0.00 
R: 122, G:000, B:096 HV:0.00, SV:0.00, VV:0.00 
R: 022, G:034, B:108 HV:0.00, SV:0.00, VV:0.00 
R: 000, G:107, B:163 HV:0.00, SV:0.00, VV:0.00

Denoba Canvas Pantone Sets Format:

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ROWS 7
COLS 1
WIDTH 140
HEIGHT 30
TEXTHEIGHT 12
SPACING 1
R:0, G:166, B:214  HV:0.00, SV:0.00, VV:0.00  PANTONE Process Cyan C	
R:214, G:0, B:110  HV:0.00, SV:0.00, VV:0.00  PANTONE Process Magenta C	
R:245, G:230, B:23  HV:0.00, SV:0.00, VV:0.00  PANTONE Process Yellow C	
R:43, G:41, B:38  HV:0.00, SV:0.00, VV:0.00  PANTONE Process Black C	
R:242, G:217, B:20  HV:0.00, SV:0.00, VV:0.00  PANTONE DS 1-1 C	
R:242, G:222, B:20  HV:0.00, SV:0.00, VV:0.00  PANTONE DS 1-2 C	
R:245, G:232, B:20  HV:0.00, SV:0.00, VV:0.00  PANTONE DS 1-3 C	

Gimp Format 1

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GIMP Palette
# Named_Colors -- GIMP Palette file
255 250 250		snow (255 250 250)
248 248 255		ghost white (248 248 255)
245 245 245		white smoke (245 245 245)
220 220 220		gainsboro (220 220 220)
255 250 240		floral white (255 250 240)
253 245 230		old lace (253 245 230)
250 240 230		linen (250 240 230)
250 235 215		antique white (250 235 215)
255 239 213		papaya whip (255 239 213)

Gimp Format 2:

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GIMP Palette
# Pastels -- GIMP Palette file
226 145 145	Untitled
153 221 146	Untitled
147 216 185	Untitled
148 196 211	Untitled
148 154 206	Untitled

PhotoImpact Format:

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<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<swatches name="Sample Swatches" version="1.0">
	<color name="S1" rvalue="255" gvalue="80" bvalue="80"/>
	<color name="S2" rvalue="255" gvalue="40" bvalue="40"/>
	<color name="S3" rvalue="255" gvalue="0" bvalue="0"/>
	<color name="S4" rvalue="225" gvalue="0" bvalue="0"/>
	<color name="S5" rvalue="195" gvalue="0" bvalue="0"/>
	<color name="S6" rvalue="165" gvalue="0" bvalue="0"/>
	<color name="S7" rvalue="135" gvalue="0" bvalue="0"/>
	<color name="S8" rvalue="105" gvalue="0" bvalue="0"/>
	<color name="S9" rvalue="255" gvalue="124" bvalue="80"/>
	<color name="S10" rvalue="255" gvalue="94" bvalue="40"/>

Paint Shop Pro Format:

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JASC-PAL
0100
256
0 0 0
0 0 51
0 0 102
0 0 153
0 0 204
0 0 255
0 51 0
0 51 51
0 51 102
0 51 153
0 51 204
0 51 255

p.s. What are the chances that PL32 could read Paint Shop Pro's graphic format some day? Reading in all its layer and vector info and all. Is this something that could be considered for a future version?

[Gerhard Huber]

PL32's Palette Format:
"COLOR0"="v2;1;0;0;0;0;0;0% Deckung;";
"COLOR1"="v2;1;0;0;0;255;255;schwarz;";

The format is:
Index: "COLOR0...n"
v2 stands for Version 2
1 means RGB Color
next 3 values are Red, Green, Blue Value
next value (normally 255) is Opacity for RGB
next value is dummy for RGB
Last there is the name of the color

Gimp Format 2:GIMP Palette
# Pastels -- GIMP Palette file
226 145 145 Untitled
153 221 146 Untitled
147 216 185 Untitled
148 196 211 Untitled
148 154 206 Untitled

This format can be read by PL32. Be aware that there has to be a TAB between the color values and the color name

p.s. What are the chances that PL32 could read Paint Shop Pro's graphic format some day? Reading in all its layer and vector info and all. Is this something that could be considered for a future version?

At the moment there are no plans, because it was not asked until now. You can try to export in PSD format (Vector is not possible).

Gerhard

[Hoogo]

I like that xml-Version most...

[Koyaanis]

Thanks for the data format info. I should be able to convert some palette files knowing that now. As for my being unable to import GIMP palettes, it could be that I was taking the palette files out of an old v1.2 of GIMP I had installed long ago. I see now, by going to their website, that GIMP is now past version 2.+.

(A little external converter program could come in handy for things like this, hint hint. )

Regarding importing PSP file formats, it's not a big priority. Only that I have a few *.pspimage files left over from working in PSP for so many years. I hesitate to suggest anything that might add unnecessary code to your efficient program's size. Weigh the benefits and drawbacks and see if it would be worth it. I can live without this ability, but it might come in handy once in a while. It might be more trouble than it is worth, every time PSP did a version upgrade they also updated the *.pspimage file formats, you had to select an option from the save menu if you wanted to make the newly saved files backward compatible with earlier versions of PSP. What a headache.

[Gerhard Huber]

Thanks for the data format info. I should be able to convert some palette files knowing that now. As for my being unable to import GIMP palettes, it could be that I was taking the palette files out of an old v1.2 of GIMP I had installed long ago. I see now, by going to their website, that GIMP is now past version 2.+.

I would suggest to get actual GIMP palettes or Photoshop palettes (this should work also).

Gerhard

[lutz]

Support for the PSP, PSPimage, and PSP picturetube formats might be a big advantage for Photoline. Since Corel has more or less stopped the development of PaintShop Pro many PSP-users (with lots of old PSP files) will be on the search for an alternative editor.
Picture tube resources on the web are amazingly rich.

[Gerhard Huber]

Support for the PSP, PSPimage, and PSP picturetube formats might be a big advantage for Photoline. Since Corel has more or less stopped the development of PaintShop Pro many PSP-users (with lots of old PSP files) will be on the search for an alternative editor.
Picture tube resources on the web are amazingly rich.

yes, but who needs picture tubes?

Gerhard

[Koyaanis]

My 10-cents:

re: Picture Tubes -- I'm not so sure that being able to import all of PSP stuff is such a good thing. It would add a lot of programming overhead (code) that would benefit just a rather small group of people. Only those that have previously used PSP and are then going to use PL32, and then again only those PSP users that relied on "Tubes". That's quite a small minority in the graphics editing world. I used to be a huge fan of PSP, but I'll gladly give up inter-program compatibility in favor of a smaller, more efficient, and more capable editor (i.e. PL32). While many scrap-bookers depend on "Tubes" because they don't have the talent nor skill to do their own clip-art, it's a simple matter of just exporting PSP's "Tube" files as any image format that supports layers. Then importing them into PL32 as layers to make into its own form of "Tube" file, a multi-layer "Stamp". Same thing, different name. The only difference between PSP's "Tubes" and PL32's "Stamps" is that PSP affords a little more variety in how they are laid-down on an image. PSP allows for randomly rotating, dynamically resizing, tinting, etc. as they are brushed on an image. You can do the same yourself in PL32 though, by just making your different Stamp's layers contain those rotation, size, random-tints, etc. effects in advance.

I have never found much use for "Tubes", but I can see how making them creatively follow a vector-path might be put to some kind of uses for decorative text, photo-frames, or other special effects, when used in a recorded script/action. People who are heavily involved with one-click scrap-booking effects are huge fans of sharing tubes, scripts/actions, clip-art, and special effects that they can pass around to each other. They're not too big on designing anything from scratch other than where they paste-down their photos and what embellishments they can find to throw on a page. (Many of them even have to depend on the layout skills of others, with their only challenge being figuring out how to resize a photo to fit a spot on a template.) Aside from these types of dependency-people, most other scrap-bookers' layout, formatting, and text editing needs are exhaustive. Scrap-bookers would highly admire PL32 in this regard, PL32 surpasses PSP in every way in this department. But scrap-booker's made-from-scratch needs are fairly absent. Those that provide the scrap-booking embellishments are very few compared to those that might actually make use of them. And as previously shown, those that create "Tubes" for PSP, can just as easily make (or convert them to) "Stamps" for PL32. In the end those that use them, the larger population, would have the same benefits.

The PSP crowd is a more of a plug & play personality. If it's not a one-click solution for them then that feature must be missing or the software is not capable of doing it. Whereas I am more of a do-it-from-scratch person. This made my migration to PL32 painless and a pleasure. If a program doesn't do what I need or already have what I need, then I make it do it. PL32 is quite capable for this. I can't find much missing at all from PL32 that I miss from PSP. Whereas those that depended on 3rd party resources would be lost having to do things on their own for the first time (making their own "Stamps"/"Tubes" for example), and learning how to do it for the first time in their lives.

re: Importing Palettes -- I tried importing some of PhotoShop's palettes but those were some of the ones in their own unique code format, meaning I couldn't decipher them by just loading them into a text editor (UltraEdit). They showed up as a binary file. Maybe I'm just not finding the right palette files or from the right versions of PS? It's not a big issue, I just liked having some of those extensive Pantone palettes available at times, for some industry-standard jobs in the past.

Suggestion: Have you thought about providing an upload area for supporters of PL32 to submit some add-ons for the program? Like extra palette files, brushes, vector-shapes, stamps, things of that nature? Even some handy scripts/actions would be nice to share, for those that might be finding easier/better ways to do thing. (I personally don't have anything to offer for sharing at this time, my being so new to the program, but I might have contributions in the future.) I did a little search on the net to try and find some places where others are sharing accessories/add-ons for PL32 but didn't find anything, or at least I couldn't find any in English.

[Gerhard Huber]

re: Importing Palettes -- I tried importing some of PhotoShop's palettes but those were some of the ones in their own unique code format, meaning I couldn't decipher them by just loading them into a text editor (UltraEdit). They showed up as a binary file. Maybe I'm just not finding the right palette files or from the right versions of PS? It's not a big issue, I just liked having some of those extensive Pantone palettes available at times, for some industry-standard jobs in the past.

I tested Photoshop paletts from version 6. If you have newer ones, that are not readable by PL32, you can send it to me, I will see, where the problem is. You can send PSP palettes too if they don't work.

Suggestion: Have you thought about providing an upload area for supporters of PL32 to submit some add-ons for the program? Like extra palette files, brushes, vector-shapes, stamps, things of that nature? Even some handy scripts/actions would be nice to share, for those that might be finding easier/better ways to do thing. (I personally don't have anything to offer for sharing at this time, my being so new to the program, but I might have contributions in the future.) I did a little search on the net to try and find some places where others are sharing accessories/add-ons for PL32 but didn't find anything, or at least I couldn't find any in English.

It's not possible to give the users a ftp location because Spammers would fill the area. But if anybody has things that is for other users, you can send it to me. In the past I placed it in the download area (I think only on the German page), perhaps we should make this "more common". But I don't know how to realize it at the moment.

Gerhard

[Koyaanis]

I tested Photoshop paletts from version 6. If you have newer ones, that are not readable by PL32, you can send it to me, I will see, where the problem is. You can send PSP palettes too if they don't work.

Thanks for checking into this for me. I only had an older PS7 installed here. I keep it just in case I run into a PS-ONLY plug-in that I can't use with any other editor. Version 7 of PS is the one I was using to test its palette files.

The PSP palette files consist of just one small one, so that's not even worth considering to look at. But the largest resource I have for industry standard Pantone and other unique palettes (earthtones, fleshtones, autumn, spring, etc.) are the Denoba Canvas palette files. If you don't mind, I would like to send one of those (smaller) ones along with one of the PS7 palette files. In case you ever consider adding a simple import option for those palette types. I'd be happy to convert the ones I have for sharing if there's an easy way to import them.

It's not possible to give the users a ftp location because Spammers would fill the area. But if anybody has things that is for other users, you can send it to me. In the past I placed it in the download area (I think only on the German page), perhaps we should make this "more common". But I don't know how to realize it at the moment.

Gerhard

Yes, I understand the risk. I too run a phpBB forum. I installed the phpBB "attachments" add-on, but that also comes with some problems for abuse if you're not careful about setting it up and setting permissions and file-size limits only for trusted members. It does work well though. Maybe something to consider adding in the future, during those long winter months.

Thanks for considering these things. I'll zip up 2 of the smaller sample palette files (PS and Canvas) and ship them on out to you.

[Koyaanis]

My apologies for all this run-around about my being unable to import GIMP and PS color palettes. I downloaded the 13.01 version of this software earlier today and it imports them all peferectly. I had no idea that this update was available many days ago. I missed the fine-print.

Again, you should be applauded. Not only for your excellent software, but how rapidly you update it.

If other software companies did that ... well, I'm glad they don't. Or I never would have discovered PhotoLine 32 in my quest to find something better with such excellent support.

[lutz]

Koyaanis wrote: "

re: Picture Tubes -- I'm not so sure that being able to import all of PSP stuff is such a good thing. It would add a lot of programming overhead (code) that would benefit just a rather small group of people."

Further down you say it is quite easy to convert them manually; so it might not be too hard to program an import function either.

"

While many scrap-bookers depend on "Tubes" because they don't have the talent nor skill to do their own clip-art, it's a simple matter of just exporting PSP's "Tube" files as any image format that supports layers. Then importing them into PL32 as layers to make into its own form of "Tube" file, a multi-layer "Stamp". Same thing, different name. The only difference between PSP's "Tubes" and PL32's "Stamps" is that PSP affords a little more variety in how they are laid-down on an image.

"

Aha, many people do really like them and there are plenty of free tube resources available on the web - which, however, could be a bad thing because Photoline is desgined for people with talent.

"

PSP allows for randomly rotating, dynamically resizing, tinting, etc. as they are brushed on an image. You can do the same yourself in PL32 though, by just making your different Stamp's layers contain those rotation, size, random-tints, etc. effects in advance.

"

But perhaps this would be a neat addition to PL32 and it might really not be necesary? An easy import function might help already.

"

People who are heavily involved with one-click scrap-booking effects are huge fans of sharing tubes, scripts/actions, clip-art, and special effects that they can pass around to each other. They're not too big on designing anything from scratch other than where they paste-down their photos and what embellishments they can find to throw on a page.

"

Bad, bad , bad - lots of enthusiastic people without talent.

Indeed picture tubes might have been one of the main attractions of PSP for many people. The "TUB" format is also supported by PhotoImpact, PhotoPlus and PhotoBrush for example.
I don't like most of the avalailable tubes either. But some of them can really save a lot of work. .... and strangely, my talent has not improved yet with the purchase of Photoline.



"

(Many of them even have to depend on the layout skills of others, with their only challenge being figuring out how to resize a photo to fit a spot on a template.) Aside from these types of dependency-people, most other scrap-bookers' layout, formatting, and text editing needs are exhaustive. Scrap-bookers would highly admire PL32 in this regard, PL32 surpasses PSP in every way in this department. But scrap-booker's made-from-scratch needs are fairly absent. Those that provide the scrap-booking embellishments are very few compared to those that might actually make use of them. And as previously shown, those that create "Tubes" for PSP, can just as easily make (or convert them to) "Stamps" for PL32.
The PSP crowd is a more of a plug & play personality.

"

[Koyaanis]

Further down you say it is quite easy to convert them manually; so it might not be too hard to program an import function either.

While I haven't done this myself, I don't see why it should be very difficult.

Aha, many people do really like them and there are plenty of free tube resources available on the web - which, however, could be a bad thing because PhotoLine is designed for people with talent.

You make an interesting point. Yes, PhotoLine is geared much more toward those that "know what they are doing", and can think and act creatively on their own without depending on someone else to hold their hand all the time.

PSP allows for randomly rotating, dynamically resizing, tinting, etc. as they are brushed on an image. You can do the same yourself in PL32 though, by just making your different Stamp's layers contain those rotation, size, random-tints, etc. effects in advance.

But perhaps this would be a neat addition to PL32 and it might really not be necessary? An easy import function might help already

I'm not saying these features would not be handy to have, I just worry that the actual size of the PhotoLine program would become too large and sloppy one day. See, I have this 32meg memory card that came with my camera. It was always too small to use for taking many photos. It was just sitting there with no purpose at all. What a waste. Now I find that I can fit a complete graphics editor on it, with 4 of my most favorite plugins. But only if I delete some of the extra language files from PL32. I'd have to delete one my favorite plugins from that card if PL32 got too large!!

People who are heavily involved with one-click scrap-booking effects are huge fans of sharing tubes, scripts/actions, clip-art, and special effects that they can pass around to each other. They're not too big on designing anything from scratch other than where they paste-down their photos and what embellishments they can find to throw on a page.

Bad, bad , bad - lots of enthusiastic people without talent.

Yes, it's a shame in some ways. But I'm not so sure that they lack talent, just that they are too afraid to find out if they have any, and the work it takes to develop that talent. I once had a friend who couldn't sing (so she said). I forced her to sing along with my guitar playing. Today she's a fairly well-known entertainer/singer. She has a marvelous voice and stage presence. This is why I see PL32 being so wonderful for people like that. If they are forced to use it without having all the handy Tubes and Clip-art that they made themselves dependent on, they might have to actually find out they really DO have talent!

It's the difference between giving to a child a box of 64 crayons and a coloring-book that tells them where to draw. Or giving them a box of 8 crayons and a large pad of blank art-paper. Which child is going to become the artist? The first child will only learn to do what everyone else does, with no creativity nor imagination. The second one will learn to make their own lines and blend new colors from what they have.

Indeed picture tubes might have been one of the main attractions of PSP for many people. The "TUB" format is also supported by PhotoImpact, PhotoPlus and PhotoBrush for example.
I don't like most of the available tubes either. But some of them can really save a lot of work. .... and strangely, my talent has not improved yet with the purchase of PhotoLine.

See above. I bet your talent will improve, eventually. Don't get me wrong, I think having software that can import all the accessory files from other programs can be a very nice feature. If PL32 was even able to import PSPimage files, that too would be a great addition. I just worry that this amazing, compact, efficient, and functional piece of code that the authors of PL32 have designed, might in the future become just another case of bloat-ware. I'd hate to see it follow the same dead-end traps that programs like PhotoShop and so many others have fallen into. That's the only reason I argue against including everything plus the kitchen-sink and coffee-maker.

[DJJohnson]

It's the difference between giving to a child a box of 64 crayons and a coloring-book that tells them where to draw. Or giving them a box of 8 crayons and a large pad of blank art-paper. Which child is going to become the artist? The first child will only learn to do what everyone else does, with no creativity nor imagination. The second one will learn to make their own lines and blend new colors from what they have.

Hey ... wait a gosh darn minute here! You're saying this in the very same discussion where you wished there was an easier way to get thousands of colors in your PL32 box of crayons!!

[Koyaanis]

LOL!!

I was afraid someone would notice that.

Unfortunately, there are times where someone asks me to use Color #823 and Color #1041 from their predefined no-brainer selections, because they lack creativity or cannot make allowances for it. Then I am forced to use their limited box of crayons. After I am done placating their wishes then I'm happy to go back to just 3 colors (red, green, and blue -- or cyan, magenta, and yellow if you will) to make any of millions of new colors on my own.