Don't understand:Why Drag to move related to transparency
-
- Mitglied
- Beiträge: 86
- Registriert: So 15 Mär 2015 05:59
Re: Don't understand:Why Drag to move related to transparency
As my thought, the deepest reason is the PL's alogrithm about transparency have some bug.
I say again, if you deeply test, you'll find more strange things about transparence.
I say again, if you deeply test, you'll find more strange things about transparence.
PL19 x64 win7 64
-
- Mitglied
- Beiträge: 379
- Registriert: So 06 Jul 2014 23:02
Re: Don't understand:Why Drag to move related to transparency
That's it. When you make the black background layer visible, it works fine.bkh hat geschrieben:Doens't have to do with the layer mask – this is similar to http://www.pl32.com/forum3/memberlist.p ... file&u=924 – currently PL doesn't handle the lowest visible layer correctly. Put another layer underneath, and dragging will work as expected. Unfortunately, this still hasn't been fixed in PL b13.jw2004 hat geschrieben:There a simple test file, I can't move the circle layer with mouse.
It seems than if the layer is a simple layer without any adjustment layer or mask, Alt + click works, else you can't move the layer with mouse.
Cheers
Burkhard.
-
- Entwickler
- Beiträge: 4161
- Registriert: Di 19 Nov 2002 15:49
Re: Don't understand:Why Drag to move related to transparency
This links to your member profile.bkh hat geschrieben:Doens't have to do with the layer mask – this is similar to http://www.pl32.com/forum3/memberlist.p ... file&u=924 –
Really? IMO that't just the clasic click&drag problem: you can't drag a layer, if there is a layer above it, because click&drag will select the topmost visible layer and drag that.bkh hat geschrieben:currently PL doesn't handle the lowest visible layer correctly. Put another layer underneath, and dragging will work as expected.
I will add an option to the Tool Settings to turn on the old behaviour: If you are clicking and dragging inside the frame of the active layer, no other layer will be selected, but the active layer will be dragged.
Martin
-
- Betatester
- Beiträge: 3674
- Registriert: Do 26 Nov 2009 22:59
Re: Don't understand:Why Drag to move related to transparency
Oops, this should have been http://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.ph ... 060#p34060Martin Huber hat geschrieben:This links to your member profile.bkh hat geschrieben:Doens't have to do with the layer mask – this is similar to http://www.pl32.com/forum3/memberlist.p ... file&u=924 –
I don't think so – as I wrote, if you place three identical layers on top of each other and select the middle one (in the layer panel or by clicking on the top layer until the middle layer is selected), then you can drag that middle layer – this is just perfect, I think. (As far as I can see, it's the mouse-up event which selects the next layer if there has been no drag – this looks like the right thing to do, and might even re-enable dragging of adjustment layers etc.)Martin Huber hat geschrieben:Really? IMO that't just the clasic click&drag problem: you can't drag a layer, if there is a layer above it, because click&drag will select the topmost visible layer and drag that.bkh hat geschrieben:currently PL doesn't handle the lowest visible layer correctly. Put another layer underneath, and dragging will work as expected.
Cheers
Burkhard.
-
- Entwickler
- Beiträge: 4161
- Registriert: Di 19 Nov 2002 15:49
Re: Don't understand:Why Drag to move related to transparency
It works here, if I select the middle layer by clicking inside the document window. If I select it via the Layer List, it doesn't work, because the top layer is selected.bkh hat geschrieben:I don't think so – as I wrote, if you place three identical layers on top of each other and select the middle one (in the layer panel or by clicking on the top layer until the middle layer is selected), then you can drag that middle layer
The reason for this is quite complicated:
- If you don't move the mouse and just click, the layer beneath the active one is selected.
- If you click and drag, and the layer, that should be selected, is beneath the active one, PhotoLine will drag the active one. Otherwise it will select the other layer and drag that one (new click&drag behaviour).
- There are situations, where you don't want to select the layer beneath the active one by clicking, but instead you want to select the topmost visible layer. Therefore if the mouse leaves the content of the active layer, the next mouse-click will not select the layer beneath, but the topmost. This is, what happens, if I select the layer in the Layer List.
Martin
-
- Mitglied
- Beiträge: 86
- Registriert: So 15 Mär 2015 05:59
Re: Don't understand:Why Drag to move related to transparency
Since new click&drag behavior become so complicate, it's difficult to determine the action for human and computer, please give us a simply way to do it. sometimes, the simplest is the best.Martin Huber hat geschrieben:It works here, if I select the middle layer by clicking inside the document window. If I select it via the Layer List, it doesn't work, because the top layer is selected.bkh hat geschrieben:I don't think so – as I wrote, if you place three identical layers on top of each other and select the middle one (in the layer panel or by clicking on the top layer until the middle layer is selected), then you can drag that middle layer
The reason for this is quite complicated:
- If you don't move the mouse and just click, the layer beneath the active one is selected.
- If you click and drag, and the layer, that should be selected, is beneath the active one, PhotoLine will drag the active one. Otherwise it will select the other layer and drag that one (new click&drag behaviour).
- There are situations, where you don't want to select the layer beneath the active one by clicking, but instead you want to select the topmost visible layer. Therefore if the mouse leaves the content of the active layer, the next mouse-click will not select the layer beneath, but the topmost. This is, what happens, if I select the layer in the Layer List.
Martin
Or give a option to select click&drag mode.
PL19 x64 win7 64
-
- Mitglied
- Beiträge: 379
- Registriert: So 06 Jul 2014 23:02
Re: Don't understand:Why Drag to move related to transparency
The problem exists only for the lowest layer: It cannot be moved like all the others. The simplest example is with two layers, not three; but with three layers, it gets visible, that click and move works not also with the topmost but also with middle layers.
If there is a layer stack, you can click and release on the topmost layer to switch to the layers beneath. If you then click and release again, you get the next, but if you click and move, the layer, that is selected, gets moved. But if the lowermost layer is selected this way the move function doesn't work. Instead the topmost layer becomes selected again.
You meant that, Burkhard, didn't you?
If there is a layer stack, you can click and release on the topmost layer to switch to the layers beneath. If you then click and release again, you get the next, but if you click and move, the layer, that is selected, gets moved. But if the lowermost layer is selected this way the move function doesn't work. Instead the topmost layer becomes selected again.
You meant that, Burkhard, didn't you?
-
- Betatester
- Beiträge: 3674
- Registriert: Do 26 Nov 2009 22:59
Re: Don't understand:Why Drag to move related to transparency
Ah, that explains the difference. I think my layers filled the entire window, so the cursor never left the layer (the same happens if you change the active layer by using keyboard shortcuts for the menu commands). Still, that doesn't work for the bottom most layer in document mode.Martin Huber hat geschrieben:- There are situations, where you don't want to select the layer beneath the active one by clicking, but instead you want to select the topmost visible layer. Therefore if the mouse leaves the content of the active layer, the next mouse-click will not select the layer beneath, but the topmost. This is, what happens, if I select the layer in the LaNSStringPboardTypeyer List.
Yes, you are probably right – an option "drag frontmost object" vs. "drag active object" probably makes sense – the two options are mutually exclusive if the clicked window position is shared by both.
Cheers
Burkhard.
-
- Betatester
- Beiträge: 3674
- Registriert: Do 26 Nov 2009 22:59
Re: Don't understand:Why Drag to move related to transparency
Exactly. (I wasn't aware from the additional complication mentioned by Martin that sometimes the "clicking order" gets reset.)Eurgail hat geschrieben: You meant that, Burkhard, didn't you?
Cheers
Burkhard.
-
- Entwickler
- Beiträge: 4161
- Registriert: Di 19 Nov 2002 15:49
Re: Don't understand:Why Drag to move related to transparency
Yes, because a click on the bottom most layer will select the top most layer, and therefore this one will be selected and dragged.bkh hat geschrieben:Ah, that explains the difference. I think my layers filled the entire window, so the cursor never left the layer (the same happens if you change the active layer by using keyboard shortcuts for the menu commands). Still, that doesn't work for the bottom most layer in document mode.Martin Huber hat geschrieben:- There are situations, where you don't want to select the layer beneath the active one by clicking, but instead you want to select the topmost visible layer. Therefore if the mouse leaves the content of the active layer, the next mouse-click will not select the layer beneath, but the topmost. This is, what happens, if I select the layer in the LaNSStringPboardTypeyer List.
And the "drag frontmost object" (aka "click&drag") should probably not support the click-through technique to select bottom layers.bkh hat geschrieben:Yes, you are probably right – an option "drag frontmost object" vs. "drag active object" probably makes sense – the two options are mutually exclusive if the clicked window position is shared by both.
Martin
-
- Betatester
- Beiträge: 3674
- Registriert: Do 26 Nov 2009 22:59
Re: Don't understand:Why Drag to move related to transparency
Yes, click-through doesn't make sense then – then it's click-and-drag-what-you-see, really.Martin Huber hat geschrieben:And the "drag frontmost object" (aka "click&drag") should probably not support the click-through technique to select bottom layers.
But I think that the other mode should be as in PL 18.53 – for me, it's the best of the two worlds. I can drag the active layer from within the entire layer frame but it still supports click-and-drag when the object is outside the active layer. That seems to work pretty well for me, and I can always "Deselect" before clicking/dragging if the active layer is in the way.
Cheers,
Burkhard.
-
- Entwickler
- Beiträge: 4161
- Registriert: Di 19 Nov 2002 15:49
Re: Don't understand:Why Drag to move related to transparency
I'll try that, but I might be missing some detail, so please check it in the next version.bkh hat geschrieben:But I think that the other mode should be as in PL 18.53 – for me, it's the best of the two worlds. I can drag the active layer from within the entire layer frame but it still supports click-and-drag when the object is outside the active layer. That seems to work pretty well for me, and I can always "Deselect" before clicking/dragging if the active layer is in the way.
Martin
-
- Betatester
- Beiträge: 3674
- Registriert: Do 26 Nov 2009 22:59
Re: Don't understand:Why Drag to move related to transparency
Sounds great – thanks!Martin Huber hat geschrieben: I'll try that, but I might be missing some detail, so please check it in the next version.
Burkhard.