Not a problem. Even with its faults, the new behaviour implemented in the last beta showed that when the Layers panel has the focus the selected layer uses the layer selection colour. When the editing window has the focus the selected layer is highlighted, but not with the selection colour -- it's a gray colour. You can see that in the current beta with the old behaviour -- the selected layer is never highlighted with the selection colour because the Layers panel never has the input focus.Herbert123 wrote: < and > keys: I see a pain point with this method. The user may not be certain which mode Photoline is currently in.
Yes, that's a good point, and I suspected as much. The backspace key could be used instead, or there are other available keys for that function. Still, for some reason, I kind of like the "Esc" key for that, but it's not that important.Herbert123 wrote: ESC key for visibility: just a bad idea. ESC is generally used to escape and/or cancel a current operation. Mapping visibility to that key defies common usage patterns for that key.
Actually the workflow efficiency is just the opposite of what you think. Becaise the trackpad is right below the keyboard, my thumbs are always over it, so switching from using the keyboard to controlling the cursor as if using a mouse is nearly instantaneous. The opposite usage is also true -- because my fingers remain close to (or over) the keyboard, switching from moving the cursor with the trackpad to using the keyboard is very quick.Herbert123 wrote:I am beginning to understand why you like your own suggested layer workflow so much: I believe you mentioned before in other threads that you work predominantly with a trackpad, correct? It makes some sense within that workflow: keys and trackpad are all close together, and controlling the mouse cursor with a small trackpad such as yours is less precise (or at the very least slower to work with in a precise manner) than a mouse and graphics tablet.
Precision control of the cursor is excellent (whether with the touchpad on my old computer or with the trackpad on my new Thinkpad) and has never been an issue. All the images I've posted in these forums for the past two years showing editing effects, whether as examples in the general discussion forums or as part of tutorials, or as samples have been done using the touchpad.
You've correctly pointed out the fundamental difference between our opinions. My view is that the old Layers panel behaviour is needlessly limited as a consequence of its artificial integration with the editing window.Herbert123 wrote: layers and the main view are integrated seamlessly, rather than fragmented into an artificial separation between the layers panel and the main view window.
Wrong. My suggestion reduces the number of key strokes for each navigation function to the absolute minimum -- one. When you state that keyboard shortcuts can now be defined for some of the layer navigation functions, those shortcuts involve two or three keys, and those keys are not nearly as efficiently concentrated in one area of the keyboard as my proposed key mappings are. So, my suggestion is definitely more efficient.Herbert123 wrote: •You still (after me asking you twice now) have not demonstrated that your suggested workflow would be more efficient and faster than the current one. Yours still takes more key strokes. With a mouse-only approach yours also takes more clicks and often many more mouse actions.
My suggestion changes nothing regarding the use of keys to perform editing in the main window. Only pressing the ">" and "<" keys are additional requirements.
My suggestion changes nothing regarding using the mouse for any purpose, whether for layer navigation or for image editing. However many mouse actions you are now using remain the same. Only pressing the ">" and "<" keys are additional requirements.
On the contrary, switching conveniently back to the main editing window is very important to me, and I repeatedly agreed (in the previous beta discussion) with your observations about the problems with having to use the mouse to activate the main editing window as the previous beta forced us to do.Herbert123 wrote: •And you have not given any rebuttal or response to my point that many users do NOT want to use keyboard shortcuts at all. How do we switch conveniently back to the main view without risking deselecting the layer(s) we just selected in the layer panel and without being forced to precisely click very specific small GUI areas, and/or panning and/or zooming out the main view? This is not important to you, it seems, since you do not work that way. But many people do. This must be addressed first and foremost!
Simply hitting the ">" and "<" keys addresses those concerns, IMO, and certainly doesn't risk deselecting the layer.
If a user doesn't want to use the keyboard at all for layer navigation, they definitely would not be forced to do so; and whatever they're doing now, they can continue to do.
So, to sum up, my suggestion is a more convenient and efficient way to navigate the layers list. Being able to use the up and down arrows to move the layer selection is something I wish I could do with every image I work with. It's a convenience we already have in the Color list and the Blend Mode list, and we should also have that convenience in the layer list.
The cost for gaining the benefits of my suggestion is having to hit the ">" and "<" keys when necessary. How much time does that take? 0.02 second? I'm willing to do that to get the benefits of a real layer navigation tool that's so intuitive to use because it uses the same keys everyone is used to using for navigating other lists in other Windows applications.