How Do I Burn and Dodge?

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mojosam
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How Do I Burn and Dodge?

Post by mojosam » Wed 05 Sep 2018 03:43

I wasn't able to find this subject addressed directly in the forum or elsewhere. PhotoLine is making me feel very stupid. I obviously don't understand the basic philosophy behind how PL "thinks".

All I want to do is darken the window in this photo. I have tried a bunch of different ways. What you see here is just one of many.

Ideally, it seems that all I would want to do is to create an adjustment layer of some sort, select the window, then somehow darken it.

What you see here is a different approach. I duplicated the image. I thought that I'd mask the duplicate layer so only the window is visible. Then I'd lower the exposure on that layer. I was unable to mask anything. The tools don't work.

Anyway, can someone point me to a simple explanation of how to burn and dodge? Or set me straight on the philosophy of how PL thinks, so that the process for burning and dodging becomes stupidly obvious.
PLDarkerWindow.jpg
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russellcottrell
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Re: How Do I Burn and Dodge?

Post by russellcottrell » Wed 05 Sep 2018 05:38

Start with a curves adjustment layer. Do whatever you want to the window. Then use a color filter to limit the effect to the highlights, since the window is much lighter than its surroundings. Then fill the mask with black and unmask the window with white, to keep the effect off the light bulb and so forth.
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russellcottrell
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Re: How Do I Burn and Dodge?

Post by russellcottrell » Wed 05 Sep 2018 05:40

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russellcottrell
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Re: How Do I Burn and Dodge?

Post by russellcottrell » Wed 05 Sep 2018 05:41

It's evidently one attachment at a time . . . .
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mojosam
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Re: How Do I Burn and Dodge?

Post by mojosam » Wed 05 Sep 2018 08:28

russellcottrell wrote:
Wed 05 Sep 2018 05:38
Start with a curves adjustment layer. Do whatever you want to the window. Then use a color filter to limit the effect to the highlights, since the window is much lighter than its surroundings. Then fill the mask with black and unmask the window with white, to keep the effect off the light bulb and so forth.
Thank you so much for the help. I think I was fairly close to understanding it, but then I went off the rails somewhere. I've read the "Introduction to Photo Editing with PhotoLine" that you've published elsewhere. The Layer Masks page seems to address this, but somehow I got confused. Maybe I temporarily overloaded my brain.

One of the things that was frustrating me earlier is that I couldn't get the automask wand to work. I guess it doesn't work in adjustment layers? I ended up painting with the brush as you suggested. That worked fine.

However, the contrast between the window and its surroundings is so big that the automask wand would be perfect. It works on the Background layer but not the Curves layer. I get the impression that I'm not supposed to make adjustments on the Background layer. So when would I use the automask wand? It seems very useful.
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russellcottrell
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Re: How Do I Burn and Dodge?

Post by russellcottrell » Wed 05 Sep 2018 16:55

Use automask on the background layer (or some other image layer) to make the selection. Then add an adjusment layer and it will be applied to the selection. The "image" of an adjustment layer is its mask, which starts out uniform so automask doesn't do anything. If you go back and use automask on the adjusment layer that you painted on, it will make a selection based on the existing mask.

cathodeRay
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Re: How Do I Burn and Dodge?

Post by cathodeRay » Fri 28 Sep 2018 19:13

OK, I'm a bit late to the party but here's another method (only mention it for completeness, it's a well established method) which is perhaps a bit simpler and feels a bit more like real dodging and burning (for those of use who remember...):

1. Add a new layer filled with 50% (neutral, mid) grey (127.127.127 or 128,128,128) above the layer to be worked on and set the blend mode to overlay or soft light (slightly gentler)

2. Paint on this layer with a soft edge low opacity say 20% black brush to burn, same settings white brush to dodge

3. Painting with neutral grey will restore any over-burnt/dodged areas.

4. PL magic (where anything goes including opacity > 100%): altering the grey layer opacity to higher opacities intensifies the overall effect

Result (I've also dodged round the light bulb to, err, lighten it up a bit...):

dodgeandburm.jpg
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mojosam
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Re: How Do I Burn and Dodge?

Post by mojosam » Fri 28 Sep 2018 19:55

Yes. That is closer to traditional D&B. I'll have to experiment with both to see which I like better. I suspect it will be this approach.

I like what you did near the lightbulb. That was a cell phone picture that saturated the color and brightness of that area. I wasn't happy with it.

bruce1951
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Re: How Do I Burn and Dodge?

Post by bruce1951 » Fri 28 Sep 2018 23:41

Another method!!!

Duplicate your layer.
Darken, with curves or similar, the second layer.
Then simply erase the window on the top layer to reveal the edited layer below.

bruce

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mojosam
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Re: How Do I Burn and Dodge?

Post by mojosam » Sat 29 Sep 2018 08:05

That's what I did originally. It just seemed wrong. I was looking for a more traditional approach.

cathodeRay
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Re: How Do I Burn and Dodge?

Post by cathodeRay » Sun 30 Sep 2018 21:07

The painting on a 50% grey layer works for me partly because it emulates traditional dodge and burn (both being very visual) and partly because its effects can be very soft/subtle - transitions very smooth etc.

I think I'm right in saying Overlay blend maths (multiply or screen depending on whether the adjustment layer is darker or lighter than neutral (mid) grey) is supposed to be done on luminosity - ie hue/saturation are unchanged in HS colour models or or in the Lab model ab stays the same and only L changes but empirically (add some fixed eye dropper spots and see what happens) this is not the case. So what we or at least I am thinking of as old fashioned B&W (contrast/luminosity) burning and dodging isn't purely that. It may be (see posts passim) that the conversions between colour models are to blame...

In any event, picking up on MojoSam's mention of saturation, there is one very interesting digital technique (covered many times before, but worth adding here for completenes) which might be called saturation painting. You paint on less/more saturation, just as you dodge and burn in the above method.

So - to desaturate the green round the light (and a bit elsewhere as well):

1. Select the painting brush and then select a desaturated colour - any grey - I used mid/neutral grey.

2. Now the magic: select HSV from the channels drop-down and then select only the saturation channel. You now have a 'zero saturation brush' or perhaps with these low effect settings mentioned below a 'desaturation brush'.

3. Paint on the areas you want to desaturate with this brush using a large low opacity soft edge brush. Result (done on my dodgeandburn.jpg):

desat.jpg
As described here this method is destructive and I am sure in the past a non-destructive method came up but I can't recall it off the top of my head and it's getting late, ditto how to increase saturation by painting. The point of this post is really to mention that in digital photo work there are things we can do quite easily (when we know how) that go beyond what we did in a (B&W) wet darkroom.
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