[Legacy] Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Hier diskutieren die Betatester von PhotoLine untereinander und mit den Entwicklern
PhilM
Mitglied
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu 28 May 2015 18:00
Location: Belgium

Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by PhilM » Thu 26 Dec 2019 17:23

Yes, I agree with Herbert statement : "Compared to just five years ago, PhotoLine has improved tremendously."

The Huber's are extremely open to suggestions.
But they make sure to maintain the strong architecture of PL clean.
They are also conscious that there is a user base that needs stability. To our benefit.

One step at a time ... we can continue make PL more efficient (PS, in my opinion, is not a good example !).

To me, improving feature usability comes first, versus UI and icons.
Not fanatic of the "Modern UI" when a button does not look as a push button and a "Save" icon does not look as a diskette :wink:

Let's work ahead, step by step.
Always willing to contribute.

Phil

User avatar
shijan
Mitglied
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon 23 Dec 2019 15:21

Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by shijan » Thu 26 Dec 2019 17:40

der_fotograf wrote:
Thu 26 Dec 2019 09:41
In »Preferences« or »Options« you can define the extreme color value limit -> Options -> Display -> Extreme Values
Seems those values are not for auto Histogram Corerction tool.
Last edited by shijan on Thu 26 Dec 2019 18:22, edited 1 time in total.
PhotoLine UI Icons Customization Project: https://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6302

User avatar
shijan
Mitglied
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon 23 Dec 2019 15:21

Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by shijan » Thu 26 Dec 2019 18:03

PhilM wrote:
Thu 26 Dec 2019 17:23
Not fanatic of the "Modern UI" when a button does not look as a push button and a "Save" icon does not look as a diskette :wink:

Let's work ahead, step by step.
Always willing to contribute.

Phil
I also don't like ultra flat buttons that don't looks like buttons. So how about use Nuke-like UI as a reference design? Compact and simple.
Image
PhotoLine UI Icons Customization Project: https://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6302

User avatar
shijan
Mitglied
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon 23 Dec 2019 15:21

Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by shijan » Thu 26 Dec 2019 19:04

Examples to illustrate the poor PhotoLine UI situation on Mac OS:
Photoline UI on Mac (Some color Icons autoconverted to monochrome are very hard to recognize, so i back to original colored ones. Darker colors theme is near impossible to use. Too small hard to read fonts, random toolbars, endless outdated floating panels, no real fullscreen view): https://i.imgur.com/ops8buG.jpg
Photoshop UI on Mac https://i.imgur.com/EVk2i5f.jpg
Cinema 4D UI https://i.imgur.com/ZQG7Daw.jpg
Davinci Resolve UI (maybe too dark) https://i.imgur.com/xpNC5Z3.jpg
Cockos Reaper UI iLogic v3 custom theme https://i.imgur.com/wwoGo6p.jpg
Blender (also nice colored icons) https://devtalk.blender.org/uploads/def ... a9d223.png
Nuke https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2c/6b/ba ... 124bae.jpg
PhotoLine UI Icons Customization Project: https://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6302

User avatar
der_fotograf
Mitglied
Posts: 362
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2016 08:33

Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by der_fotograf » Thu 26 Dec 2019 19:36

Seems those values are not for auto Histogram Corerction tool.
PhotoLine thankfully and definitely is not »everything automatic«. Use ACDsee or Luminar if you want that: Auto-Exposure, Auto-Enhance, Auto-Sharpen, Auto-Sky, Auto-Color, Auto-Shadows, Auto-Highlights, Auto-whatever-you want, maybe even Auto-Likes on Facebook or 500 pixel or flickr.

:mrgreen:
--------------------------------------------
Nur wenige wissen, wie viel man wissen muss, um zu wissen, wie wenig man weiss.
— Werner Heisenberg

User avatar
shijan
Mitglied
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon 23 Dec 2019 15:21

Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by shijan » Thu 26 Dec 2019 20:18

It is not for "auto sky" :) Let me explain my workflow:
- I still shoot 35 mm film and scan film negatives in linear gamma with color management turned off. Orange mask removed during scan with custom gain adjustment for each channel.
- Next i open file in PhotoLine and convert file to 32 bit depth (i explain later why)
- Crop frame (here i would like to see option to keep original pixels during crop, but seems it is not there yet in PhotoLine image mode)
- Next i assign custom created input scanner profile with linear gamma.
- Next i transform it to wide gamut color space (ACES or ProPhoto) with L* gamma. (L* gamma is the only way to invert negative without color shifts and preserve original tonal values. 32 bit depth helps to preserve negative color values in large color spaces and don't clip that data. See my example here https://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6296 )
(As alternate for "classic" lossy color management transforms i prefer to turn color management off and just use Adjustment layers with custom created color space transform LUTs. To create those LUTs i use Synthetic ICC+3D LUT maker apps from DisplayCAL package based on ArgyllCMS https://displaycal.net/ . As suggested in other thread OpenColorIO integrated to Adjustment layer could make similar things way faster way simpler)
- Invert (here i would like to see simple Invert adjustment layer instead of Invert option in Curves tool)
- Next i add Histogram Correction tool and use "Auto Mode for All channels" to crop huge amount of empty space from channels. (here sometimes i need to pick up different clipping point, but it is not possible in PhotoLine yet)
- Next in same Histogram Correction tool i bring back Output levels, to recover clipped dynamic range (this is where 32 bit float also works way better than 16 bit and allow endless data recovery)
Image
- Next i add Curves tool to bring back contrast with high precision manual curve (high precision, spline interpolated curve is great!)
- White Point tool to fine tune adjust (optional)
- Color space transform LUT from working space to sRGB for web or whatever i need for printing.

P.S. For some additional adjustments i also may need to use 1D gamma transformation LUTs. But PhotoLine don't support 1D cube LUTs yet. I generate those 1D LUTs in LUTCalc online app https://cameramanben.github.io/LUTCalc/ ... index.html

So this is my desired workflow for film scans that allow to keep original source file 100% untouched. And this is the reason why i am looking forward to use PhotoLine and wish to improve it.
PhotoLine UI Icons Customization Project: https://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6302

PhilM
Mitglied
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu 28 May 2015 18:00
Location: Belgium

Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by PhilM » Thu 26 Dec 2019 22:51

shijan wrote:
Thu 26 Dec 2019 20:18
(As alternate for "classic" lossy color management transforms i prefer to turn color management off and just use Adjustment layers with custom created color space transform LUTs. To create those LUTs i use Synthetic ICC+3D LUT maker apps from DisplayCAL package based on ArgyllCMS https://displaycal.net/ . As suggested in other thread OpenColorIO integrated to Adjustment layer could make similar things way faster way simpler)

- Invert (here i would like to see simple Invert adjustment layer instead of Invert option in Curves tool)

- Color space transform LUT from working space to sRGB for web or whatever i need for printing.

P.S. For some additional adjustments i also may need to use 1D gamma transformation LUTs. But PhotoLine don't support 1D cube LUTs yet. I generate those 1D LUTs in LUTCalc online app https://cameramanben.github.io/LUTCalc/ ... index.html
You should have a look at HaldCLUT's.
They are a lot simpler to manage and create, 1D or 3D, invert, etc ...
You can use PL to very simply create them and use them.
Read more about HaldCLUT here : http://www.quelsolaar.com/technology/clut.html

Good luck.

Phil

User avatar
shijan
Mitglied
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon 23 Dec 2019 15:21

Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by shijan » Thu 26 Dec 2019 23:03

DisplayCAL tools can export HaldCLUTs format as well as cube. So new beta version of PhotoLine supports natively HaldCLUTs? Nice!
But cube LUTs are just more commonly used, and more supported by other graphics and video apps. So HaldCLUTs are still not the best cross application exchange method yet.

Another problem - seems there is no any common HaldCLUT pattern for high quality (1024 or 4096 points) 1D gamma transformations. If this pattern exist please let me know.
Last edited by shijan on Fri 27 Dec 2019 21:22, edited 1 time in total.
PhotoLine UI Icons Customization Project: https://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6302

User avatar
der_fotograf
Mitglied
Posts: 362
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2016 08:33

Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by der_fotograf » Fri 27 Dec 2019 01:15

Next i add Histogram Correction tool and use "Auto Mode for All channels" to crop huge amount of empty space from channels. (here sometimes i need to pick up different clipping point, but it is not possible in PhotoLine yet)
This is nonsense. What you think is »empty space« still contains valuable image information for details in the shadows and highlights. You just don't see them in the histogram. (This is just a hint from a trained and studied photographer with 40+ years experience, who still uses large format cameras with slide and negative film)

Besides this, why don't you just start coding your very own superduperkiller photo editor to show the rest of the world your 20 years of experience and invaluable capabilities? I am sure your SPE (shijan photo editor) will kill Photoshop, PhotoLine and Affinity in a snap...
--------------------------------------------
Nur wenige wissen, wie viel man wissen muss, um zu wissen, wie wenig man weiss.
— Werner Heisenberg

User avatar
shijan
Mitglied
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon 23 Dec 2019 15:21

Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by shijan » Fri 27 Dec 2019 01:30

I don't recover all that empty space back. I recover only very small amount of real existing visible data in highlights and shadows which was clipped after automatic per channel adjustment. Sort of 100% preserve highlights. Maybe on my quick example screenshot recovery was shown too extreme. Let's don't offtopic about film scans development quesions. I show example of real life workflow which could be improved if developers add some additional options to PhotoLine.
PhotoLine UI Icons Customization Project: https://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6302

User avatar
shijan
Mitglied
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon 23 Dec 2019 15:21

Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by shijan » Fri 27 Dec 2019 04:13

One more request: Remember view settings for Color Editor window. Currently when i click to color and open Color Editor window, it always opened in RGB mode. Even if i switch it earlier to HSV or any other different mode.
UPD. Problem fixed by "If you want to change the color mode for the selected color you have to drag a slider first"
Last edited by shijan on Fri 27 Dec 2019 17:59, edited 1 time in total.
PhotoLine UI Icons Customization Project: https://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6302

User avatar
shijan
Mitglied
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon 23 Dec 2019 15:21

Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by shijan » Fri 27 Dec 2019 07:14

Another temporary idea for Mac OS UI. Add option to force native Dark Mode for PhotoLine. This may look better than current brightness UI slider and same time will not force users to switch all system to dark mode if they prefer light system UI. But this is not a real fix. It will not save Mac users from multiple floating panels and tiny unreadable fonts.
Image
Image
Last edited by shijan on Thu 16 Apr 2020 17:35, edited 5 times in total.
PhotoLine UI Icons Customization Project: https://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6302

User avatar
Gerhard Huber
Entwickler
Entwickler
Posts: 3815
Joined: Mon 18 Nov 2002 15:30
Location: Bad Gögging

Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by Gerhard Huber » Fri 27 Dec 2019 09:24

shijan wrote:
Fri 27 Dec 2019 04:13
One more request: Remember view settings for Color Editor window. Currently when i click to color and open Color Editor window, it always opened in RGB mode. Even if i switch it earlier to HSV or any other different mode.
it opens in the color mode of the color you used to open it.

User avatar
der_fotograf
Mitglied
Posts: 362
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2016 08:33

Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by der_fotograf » Fri 27 Dec 2019 13:44

Alles Blödsinn. Die schwarze App, die er zeigt, ist RPP, und dort ist der »dunkle Modus« noch experimentell und hat absolut nichts mit »macOS native« zu tun.

Wir sollten diesem Spinner nicht länger auf den Leim gehen, sonst fordert er morgen noch, dass PL Kaffee kochen, Toiletten reinigen und sich mit Alexa unterhalten sollte.
--------------------------------------------
Nur wenige wissen, wie viel man wissen muss, um zu wissen, wie wenig man weiss.
— Werner Heisenberg

User avatar
shijan
Mitglied
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon 23 Dec 2019 15:21

Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by shijan » Fri 27 Dec 2019 16:47

Gerhard Huber wrote:
Fri 27 Dec 2019 09:24
shijan wrote:
Fri 27 Dec 2019 04:13
One more request: Remember view settings for Color Editor window. Currently when i click to color and open Color Editor window, it always opened in RGB mode. Even if i switch it earlier to HSV or any other different mode.
it opens in the color mode of the color you used to open it.
Seems it is a bug in 21.5 release version only. I just download last beta version and it works as it should - opens in the color mode of the color you used to open it. But when i back to 21.5 problem is still there. Maybe just some settings conflict between release and beta versions.
PhotoLine UI Icons Customization Project: https://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6302