[Legacy] Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

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PhilM
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Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by PhilM » Sat 28 Dec 2019 18:57

shijan wrote:
Thu 26 Dec 2019 19:04
Cinema 4D UI https://i.imgur.com/ZQG7Daw.jpg
The ONE idea I like in the various UI examples, is the way Cinema 4D does highlight the active tool, option buttons and tabs with very visible Orange back color.
Lot more visible than shades of grey.

Note : PL file browser uses orange highlighting.

Enjoy what is left of this year.

Phil

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shijan
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Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by shijan » Sat 28 Dec 2019 19:06

Gerhard Huber wrote:
Sat 28 Dec 2019 10:05
shijan wrote:
Sat 28 Dec 2019 05:21
Seems here is another strange mistake in tools logic:
I don't think so. This behavior is many years old and was often discussed, there is no perfect solution.
shijan wrote:
Sat 28 Dec 2019 05:21
1. Select Rounded Rectangle Tool.
2. In Tool Settings select desired look (color, stroke, corner radius)
3. Create rounded Rectangle vector object.
4. Select other layer and next select Rectangle vector object again.
5. Color stroke as well as other settings could be changed now inside Layer Settings window. But corner radius couldn't be changed there.
you can change the corner radius in the tool settings. I don't know if we need a second place for this.
I don't think that Rounded Rectangles are so often used that they need big options and additional entries in the Layer Attributes.
If I am not right, correct me.
shijan wrote:
Sat 28 Dec 2019 05:21
Same time i can not change color or stroke settings in Tool Settings for already created Rounded Rectangle in same way. Impossible adventure.
The settings in the Tool Settings is for pre drawing. If it would change the current settings, you would not be able to draw two different vector objects.
Sometimes "Tool settings" control settings of already created layer, but sometimes don't. Some "Layer Attributes" may be visible but actually don't change things in Adjustment layers. Text tool is another example of Tool vs Layer Attributes conflict. As i noticed before - context dependent settings just arranged in very confusing logic from early days, but no any attempts to make things better.
PhotoLine UI Icons Customization Project: https://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6302

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shijan
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Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by shijan » Sat 28 Dec 2019 19:29

Gerhard Huber wrote:
Sat 28 Dec 2019 09:59
shijan wrote:
Sat 28 Dec 2019 04:15
Icons like these don't works well at all. Even after 5 days of usage i still sometimes guess which sigh represents which parameter.
Icons have advantages and disadvantages.
The big advantage is, that they have the same size in all languages and they need less space.
We try to give every icon a tooltip, so if you don't know what it does, you can place the mouse on it and you can read it.
This is rather cosmetic than real problem but:
1. It is way simpler to see text near control than always hover icon to see tool tip text.
2. These icons provide inconstancy in UI, they feels like belong to other app.
3. All other tools except curves and Expose use text names.
4. Icons vs text have no any difference in vertical docked size layout
5. All fits well to compact horizontal layout docked to tab as well.
6. No problem with single floating window layout because (unlike photoshop) it could be adjusted to any size.
7. Icons are dead end if you need to add new sliders in future. 3 sliders with icons are more less usable, 4 sliders with icons produce questions, 6 sliders with icons are total disaster.
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shijan
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Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by shijan » Sat 28 Dec 2019 20:06

Just some quick sketches of simplification and unification:
Image
Image

Image
Image
Last edited by shijan on Sat 28 Dec 2019 21:32, edited 1 time in total.
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PhilM
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Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by PhilM » Sat 28 Dec 2019 21:18

shijan wrote:
Sat 28 Dec 2019 19:29

1. It is way simpler to see text near control than always hover icon to see tool tip text.
...
Hi,

This is just YOUR opinion.
As are many of your suggestions/requests.

Phil

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der_fotograf
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Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by der_fotograf » Sat 28 Dec 2019 22:20

Ist hier niemand, der diesen ganzen Unsinn einfach mal abschalten kann?
Es ist absolut unerträglich für jeden ernsthaften PL Anwender.

Isn't there anyone here who can just turn off all this nonsense?
It's absolutely unbearable for every serious PL user.
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shijan
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Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by shijan » Sat 28 Dec 2019 23:10

der_fotograf, Sie verhalten sich wie ein hysterischer Troll, der von Adobe angeheuert wurde, um neue PL-Benutzer und Beta-Tester hier abzuschrecken.

Usability questions are always subjective. As i notice earlier, I just provide my personal feedback and fresh lookup. It's up to developers to accept those suggestions or not.
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Hoogo
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Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by Hoogo » Sun 29 Dec 2019 00:48

shijan wrote:
Sat 28 Dec 2019 23:10
...As i notice earlier, I just provide my personal feedback and fresh lookup....
I agree and think that this a very good thing to do, and I appreciate that input.

Seems to me that you have a lot of experience with many different programs, so you've seen different solutions to common problems and have a feeling for the "usual" way to solve things. So everything you notice now and mention here, while you're new to the program, are hints where it is somehow "unusual" or less pretty than possible. Once you got used to PL you will hardly notice these tiny things anymore.

Just don't put too much work into it. It's nice when you enjoy creating some sketches, but don't be disappointed if they are not taken into account. The general appearance is a topic that is mentioned quite regularly by new users, and so are such suggestions.
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shijan
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Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by shijan » Sun 29 Dec 2019 02:06

Overall Color editor is very very powerful here. But Color editor window could be also slightly improved and unified: wain window + always show color swatches collection in the bottom with simple drag and drop support. Currently swatches are hidden in separate tab, rather complicated to copy/paste colors to/from collection.
P.S. In many other apps there is also no direct drag and drop option for color swatches from floating windows, but they use right click menu command "Add Color to Swatches"
ImageImage
ImageImage

main window + color swatches example from Mac OS:
Image
Last edited by shijan on Sun 29 Dec 2019 07:53, edited 4 times in total.
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shijan
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Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by shijan » Sun 29 Dec 2019 07:21

When layers structure is collapsed and expanded again, PhotoLine always open only first layer instead of all structure. Just imagine how it could be hard to work with complicated layer structures if every time after you collapsed and expand master layer, you need to open all structure again one by one layer:
UPD. Problem is fixed in 21.90b10 "Layer list: Alt + click on the arrow to open all children and children's children"
Last edited by shijan on Tue 07 Jan 2020 22:02, edited 2 times in total.
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PhilM
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Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by PhilM » Sun 29 Dec 2019 11:34

Hoogo wrote:
Sun 29 Dec 2019 00:48
shijan wrote:
Sat 28 Dec 2019 23:10
...As i notice earlier, I just provide my personal feedback and fresh lookup....
I agree and think that this a very good thing to do, and I appreciate that input.

Seems to me that you have a lot of experience with many different programs, so you've seen different solutions to common problems and have a feeling for the "usual" way to solve things. So everything you notice now and mention here, while you're new to the program, are hints where it is somehow "unusual" or less pretty than possible. Once you got used to PL you will hardly notice these tiny things anymore.

Just don't put too much work into it. It's nice when you enjoy creating some sketches, but don't be disappointed if they are not taken into account. The general appearance is a topic that is mentioned quite regularly by new users, and so are such suggestions.
Hi Hoogo,

I basically agree with you, but ...
It needs some synthesis and organization.
I have a hard time to read and evaluate 40+ posts in less than a week. With a mix of wishes, preferences, corrections, etc ...

I believe usability debate will last forever. And will never make all users satisfied.
Users also need stability. Let's avoid changes that bring marginal advantages.
Let's avoid adding options and cursors that will complicate UI some more, if they are useful only once in a while.

I would prefer discussing new features, rather than spend lengthy discussions about preferences.
What about frequency separation, focus stacking, image alignment, HDR stacking, etc ... just as an example.

Lastly, it is the developer's duty to keep all this coherent and in line with their vision.
I believe they did well so far. Even if think we are reaching limits in complexity with some of the features.

Image management is complex. Software is there to make it efficient. Not to make it more complex.

Very best regards and wishes for 2020.

Philippe

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shijan
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Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by shijan » Mon 30 Dec 2019 02:23

Bug in remove object mode tool options:
1. By default when i add lasso select, none of these two buttons are selected.
2. If i press one of these buttons, i can not turn it off anymore.
3. If i switch to different never used before lasso tool, there is again none of these buttons selected by default.
4. If i switch back to already used lasso tool, button is stays selected and i can not turn it off anymore.

Problem fixed in 21.90b10
Last edited by shijan on Fri 28 Feb 2020 03:21, edited 2 times in total.
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shijan
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Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by shijan » Mon 30 Dec 2019 08:09

Request for option for Adjustment Layer tools to do all processing in 32 bit depth, even if image source is 8 or 16 bit. From my subjective tests up-converting document to 32 bit provides HUGE flexibility in color correction, but as side effect it 2x increases PLD file size and file saving time. Currently PLD file don't provide EXR-like compression optimized for 32 bit depth, so 32 bit file sizes are rather huge. It is always better to keep 16 bit source files in 16 bit PLD file, but do all processing in 32 bit depth. As real life example - DaVinci Resolve works exact like this (always process everything in 32 bit float internally and keeps source files untouched).
UPD. As suggested by Hoogo, It appears this option exists in Document mode (all Processing done in 32 bit but PLD file size keeps as 16 bit.) : "Try switching to document mode. Then you can assign the bit depth to the document, that should do."

Example of extreme color correction done in 16 vs 32 bit depth:
Image
Image
Image
Image
Last edited by shijan on Mon 30 Dec 2019 11:20, edited 2 times in total.
PhotoLine UI Icons Customization Project: https://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6302

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Gerhard Huber
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Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by Gerhard Huber » Mon 30 Dec 2019 08:57

shijan wrote:
Mon 30 Dec 2019 02:23
Bug in remove object mode tool options:
4. If i switch back to already used lasso tool, button is stays selected and i can not turn it off anymore.
you can click inside your picture, and the button will no longer be selected. I will fix this.

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Hoogo
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Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by Hoogo » Mon 30 Dec 2019 09:50

shijan wrote:
Mon 30 Dec 2019 08:09
Example of extreme color correction done in 16 vs 32 bit depth:
From a technical point of view, it's a thing of numbers outside 0..1 (32bit) or no numbers (other depths, clipping).
But it also means that "output levels" does not really restrict to the levels you selected! So I think it matters WHY you use the tool.
For your test you used input- and output-sliders, but I think in real live you will use only one of them
shijan wrote:
Mon 30 Dec 2019 08:09
It is always better to keep 16 bit source files in 16 bit PLD file, but do all processing in 32 bit depth.
I'm not up to date to the latest processors, but imho calculations in 16 bit should still be faster when you have to process mbytes of data.
Try switching to document mode. Then you can assign the bit depth to the document, that should do.
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