[Legacy] Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

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shijan
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Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by shijan » Mon 30 Dec 2019 10:59

Hoogo wrote:
Mon 30 Dec 2019 09:50
Try switching to document mode. Then you can assign the bit depth to the document, that should do.
WOW! Yes, in document mode it works like this! Processing in 32 bit but PLD file size keeps as 16 bit. Also Document mode allow non destructive image crop. But as i notice earlier i really can't understand what is the point of this separation between document and picture modes with additional limitations in picture mode. Picture mode could be just a single page document.
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Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by shijan » Mon 30 Dec 2019 11:49

Hoogo wrote:
Mon 30 Dec 2019 09:50
From a technical point of view, it's a thing of numbers outside 0..1 (32bit) or no numbers (other depths, clipping).
But it also means that "output levels" does not really restrict to the levels you selected! So I think it matters WHY you use the tool.
For your test you used input- and output-sliders, but I think in real live you will use only one of them
I described my workflow here https://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.p ... =15#p46765 I done same things earlier in other apps in 16 bit in slightly different ways, but that quick and simple recovery from negative levels in 32 bit is possible only in PhotoLine. Probably other color correction tools also may benefit from 32 bit depth negative values recovery, but i didn't test them side by side yet.
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Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by Hoogo » Mon 30 Dec 2019 11:54

shijan wrote:
Mon 30 Dec 2019 10:59
But as i notice earlier i really can't understand what is the point of this separation between document and picture modes with additional limitations in picture mode. Picture mode could be just a single page document.
Once upon a time picture mode was something like "normal" for any editor, no matter if PSP, PSE, PS...
The background layer defines the pixel grid and color depth in the same way as normal file formats like Jpg do. You can't rotate in free angles, or skew or make any other changes that would leave the normal pixel grid. When you crop, you really crop your picture, and when you resize, you really change your pixels.

Document mode is more like a layout program. An empty background defines the pixel grid, depth and other stuff, and a loaded file is just a layer that can be freely rotated, scaled or changed in any way. And when you do things like that and save as Jpg again, you'll have the original size and a white border in your file, or in worst case have your pixels resampled into a different resolution. That's just not what you need when you do some little retouching of your pictures, and you will go mad if that wastes your time or even corrupts your pictures because of resampling.

I usually open a file and keep the mode until I find it limiting.
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Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by shijan » Tue 31 Dec 2019 01:25

Here is one more tiny request for usability: add Aspect Ratio selector to Crop Tool.
In Document Mode Lasso tool can crop only selected image but not all document. So i need to use Crop Tool to crop (trim) document. Crop Tool is very limited in options compare to Lasso and currently have no Aspect Ratio selector. This is must have option for photography and printing

Image

Currently instead of aspect ratio in Crop Tool i can manually insert size in pixels to and transform with preserved ratio. Sort of partial fix for the problem

Image

Also option requested earlier for Lasso and Crop tools: Those tools Needs Center point similar to center point used in layer handles. Or at least add additional center crosshatch guide overlay like this:
Image
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Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by shijan » Tue 31 Dec 2019 04:56

Fix browser tree to show native pixel perfect icon size on Mac OS.

change this Image

to this:
Image
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Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by shijan » Tue 31 Dec 2019 08:47

SERIOUS BUG found in 21.5 as well as in beta version.
Same auto histogram adjustment (auto mode for all channels) set to 3 channel view show different result in docked and in floating windows:
Image
UPD. Seems like it is something related to file size and grain structure of the image. When i scale large file to 50% and repeat auto mode for all channels, i see less difference between docked and in floating windows. Very strange problem...
Also if switch to single channel view mode, the clipping numbers are the same in docked and in floating windows, but histograms show different clipping amount.
Image


UPD. Problem fixed in 22.00rc1
Last edited by shijan on Fri 28 Feb 2020 03:06, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by shijan » Tue 31 Dec 2019 13:45

Another problem - JPEG compression quality. JPEG export for web (Menu -> Web -> Web Export...) even at 100% quality looks very bad compare to other apps. It produce some strange sharping-like edges effect. It seems this just another example of randomness in PhotoLine. Problem exists only in JPEG WEB export menu (Menu -> Web -> Web Export...) . Normal "save as JPEG" command as well as (Menu -> File -> Export -> JPEG Image) don't produce these artifacts.
Image

UPD. problem fixed in 21.90b10
Last edited by shijan on Fri 28 Feb 2020 03:14, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by Hoogo » Tue 31 Dec 2019 21:49

shijan wrote:
Tue 31 Dec 2019 13:45
Another problem - JPEG compression quality. JPEG export for web even at 100% quality looks very bad compare to other apps. It produce some strange sharping-like edges effect.
EDIT: Haven't seen your update.

I can partly confirm.
I see the colorful artifacts, but much less visible at 80%, and I do not see the sharpening effect.
I picked the colors from your picture.
I used channel mixer to transform into YPbCr manually, and get close to Pb=0, but not completely, and there's no clipping.
Maybe you used different color spaces in different programs?

I remember similar discussions, I think in the end we agreed on the "smooting".
Jpeg compression artifacts
PL19

By the way, You know JpegSnoop?
There are also interesting technical articles over there.
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Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by Eurgail » Wed 01 Jan 2020 03:38

shijan wrote:
Tue 31 Dec 2019 08:47
SERIOUS BUG found in 21.5 as well as in beta version.

Same auto histogram adjustment (auto mode for all channels) set to 3 channel view show different result in docked and in floating windows:
Can't confirm this directly on Windows: The height of the histogram field cannot be brought to the same amount, but taking this into account, the result of a comparison between both views seems to be fine.

shijan wrote:
Tue 31 Dec 2019 13:45
Another problem - JPEG compression quality. JPEG export for web even at 100% quality looks very bad compare to other apps. It produce some strange sharping-like edges effect.
You should not compare quality levels, but file sizes. For me, the quality level of 80 in Photoshop leads to a file with the double size than in PhotoLine with the same quality level.

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Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by shijan » Wed 01 Jan 2020 06:45

It could be Mac specific problem. Try to apply "auto mode for all channels" to this file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/46qr7wn3fui28 ... 2.jpg?dl=0 (this is not a film scan, but a scan of 10x15 printed photo taken with very simple Epson flatbed scanner)
Apply auto mode for all channels in floating window, hit OK.
Switch to docked window, apply again "auto mode for all channels" and see the difference.
Switch back to floating window, apply "auto mode for all channels" and see the difference again.
it is also strange that histogram shape itself look different between docked and in floating windows
Problem is not depends of bit depth. (same result with 8, 16 or 32 bit)
Problem is not depends of ICC profile (same result with sRGB as well as with different wide gamut color spaces with L gamma curve)
Problem depends of image size. If i reduce size to 25%, difference between docked and floating windows became less visible.


UPD. Problem fixed in 22.00rc1
Last edited by shijan on Fri 28 Feb 2020 03:15, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by shijan » Wed 01 Jan 2020 13:49

Tiny cosmetic fix suggestion - match appearance of "auto mode for all channels" view to "single channel" view. Currently histogram areas covered with colored huds are slightly hard to see, especially green color.
Image
Image
Image
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Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by Herbert123 » Thu 02 Jan 2020 23:02

shijan wrote:
Tue 31 Dec 2019 13:45
Another problem - JPEG compression quality. JPEG export for web (Menu -> Web -> Web Export...) even at 100% quality looks very bad compare to other apps. It produce some strange sharping-like edges effect.
Weird. I set the quality to 100% and checked "High Quality", and this is the result:
2020-01-02 13_00_03-Web Export.png
Yours looks like a version without high quality activated.

You work on a Mac - have you tried turning that checkbox off and on again?
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Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by shijan » Fri 03 Jan 2020 06:30

I checked again and seems this is a Beta version problem:
In 21.5 WEB export JPEG "High Quality" works.
In 21.90b9 WEB export JPEG "High Quality" don't works.

UPD. Problem fixed in 21.90b10
Last edited by shijan on Fri 28 Feb 2020 03:20, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by shijan » Sun 05 Jan 2020 14:25

In Document mode if document size in pixels is small and if i paste large external image there, the image is always transforms to document size. So to revert image back to original size i need go to "layer settings" tab and set image scale back to 100%.
I looked everywhere and can't find any similar option. So the request: Add option to keep original size of pasted image in "Document mode" (similar behave as is Picture mode). Some hotkey or quick menu option - "revert image to original size" could be also very useful.
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Re: Large List of Suggestions and Requests for Photoline UI and Tools

Post by Herbert123 » Sun 05 Jan 2020 20:13

shijan wrote:
Sun 05 Jan 2020 14:25
In Document mode if document size in pixels is small and if i paste large external image there, the image is always transforms to document size. So to revert image back to original size i need go to "layer settings" tab and set image scale back to 100%.
I looked everywhere and can't find any similar option. So the request: Add option to keep original size of pasted image in "Document mode" (similar behave as is Picture mode). Some hotkey or quick menu option - "revert image to original size" could be also very useful.
There is an option for that, but it is rather hidden...

Right-mouse click on the "Angle" word in the Layer Properties. A "Reset" option appears.

In case you are not aware, some other hidden options in the Layer Properties are:
- double-click on the word "Vector" to stack multiple strokes and fills (vector objects and text objects)
- to fix (apply) the current transformation (destructive), right-mouse click the "Scaling" word.
- angle and skewing have an option for clockwise and counter-clockwise when right-mouse clicked.
- double-clicking the pixel size entries opens the Change Layer Size dialog.
- right-mouse clicking the "Position" word or fields displays a list of units. (I wish we could create our own custom units... Picas is missing!)
- if a custom ICC profile is applied to a specific layer, double-clicking the entry will open the Set Colour Profile dialog.
- if layer effects are applied to a layer, double-clicking the empty space on the left will open the layer effects dialog. When multiple layer effects are applied, double-clicking the left space on the left before each entry will take you directly to that effect.
- double-clicking a shape with live properties opens the Tool Settings for that object.

And: right-mouse click any colour field to access Harmony, in case you haven't discovered it yet.

PS have you found the two Easter Egg games yet? PhotoLine is full of hidden little surprises. :wink:
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