"merged copy" often not working ???

Here everybody can post his problems with PhotoLine
lutz
Mitglied
Posts: 376
Joined: Wed 12 Apr 2006 19:53

"merged copy" often not working ???

Post by lutz » Thu 15 Nov 2007 00:33

If one uses blending modes and layer transparencies the "merged copy" command often is grayed out and is inacessible. This was true for version 13 and has not changed with version 14. This happens even when using only bitmap layers. This function should clearly be improved, so that it always works, no matter which circumstances (prefreably also with vector layers; and preferably without the need to select anything; just copy a merged down version of the completed image, as is, to the clipboard). Are there currently any parameters or settings to avoid which would enhance the chances of it working ?

User avatar
Hoogo
Betatester
Posts: 3865
Joined: Sun 03 Jul 2005 13:35
Location: Mülheim/Ruhr

Post by Hoogo » Thu 15 Nov 2007 09:04

Where do find "merged copy"? If it is about reducing two layers to one: I thought that this was a missing option :)

User avatar
Koyaanis
Mitglied
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon 25 Sep 2006 20:23

Post by Koyaanis » Thu 15 Nov 2007 11:22

Ohmuhgawd, you mean I know something Hoogo missed? :-) Watch out Professor Albus Dumbledore! Our resident Harry Potter has some competition!

I think you'll find that the merged-copy command becomes available any time you do a selection. It has to know what areas you want merged together. I've not found it grayed out whenever I use altered layers or even vector layers on top of them or whatever. Doing a simple test just now with a duplicated layer set to 20% transparency and "exclusion" type. With a Create a Ruler vector graphic on top of that (because that one doesn't behave like normal vector graphics, I thought it'd be a good test.) I can use the Merged-Copy if I do a selection on any part of it and everything that's visible, meaning layers not visible are not copied, is included in the copy. (Make sure the selection tool is in use at the time.) If you can't do a "select all" to copy everything then just choose a layer with the largest size to include it all in your selection. Maybe you can provide a more specific example of when it doesn't work for you?

For those who are new to using PL32 (ahem), you can find this feature on the Edit > Merged Copy menu. :-) CTRL-Shift-C

p.s. Hoogo, there's a right-click menu option for the layer's palette now, choosing "reduce to one layer" merges all selected (checkmarked) layers to one.

Ohmuhgawd! That's TWO things I knew that he didn't! Okay Hoogo, hand over your magic wand. I think you lost the right to have one today. :-)

User avatar
greenmorpher
Mitglied
Posts: 943
Joined: Tue 29 May 2007 14:42
Location: Rabaul, Papua New Guinea

Post by greenmorpher » Thu 15 Nov 2007 12:02

Kontrol Yourself Koyaanis! :P

Now let's get down to business. I had two layers, I selected a patch with the circular lasso in the bottom layer, then with it still selected, I checked bith layers, went Menu Bar | Edit | Merged Copy.

Then I pasted as a new document! Hello! The selection on the bottom page in the stack had cut the same area out of the layer above it, and the two had marged into one. Surrounding areas was transparent.

Pretty good trick, that -- now I'll have to think of some way of using it.

Cheers, Geoff

Geoffrey Heard, Business Writer & Publisher

"Type & Layout: Are you communicating or just making pretty shapes" -- Revealed! The secrets of how you can use type and layout to turbocharge your messages in print. See the book at http://www.worsleypress.com

User avatar
Gerhard Huber
Entwickler
Entwickler
Posts: 3839
Joined: Mon 18 Nov 2002 15:30
Location: Bad Gögging

Post by Gerhard Huber » Thu 15 Nov 2007 12:14

Koyaanis wrote:I think you'll find that the merged-copy command becomes available any time you do a selection.
it should be always enabled, when there is a lasso and when it would copy other things then the normal copy command does.

Gerhard

lutz
Mitglied
Posts: 376
Joined: Wed 12 Apr 2006 19:53

Post by lutz » Thu 15 Nov 2007 18:04

So why is "select all" not enough to get merged copy working ?

User avatar
Koyaanis
Mitglied
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon 25 Sep 2006 20:23

Post by Koyaanis » Sat 17 Nov 2007 00:13

lutz wrote:So why is "select all" not enough to get merged copy working ?
I've never found this to be a problem. This is why it might be a good idea for you to describe the exact circumstances in which it happens.

In lieu of that, you could always do a "Mark all Layers" in the Layers palette, then do a "Reduce to One Layer" or "Reduce to Background", copy your whole document to the clipboard (normal copy command), then use your undo button to restore all layers back to normal before continuing.

lutz
Mitglied
Posts: 376
Joined: Wed 12 Apr 2006 19:53

Post by lutz » Sat 17 Nov 2007 01:39

Hi Koyaanis,
thanks for your suggestions.

Somewhat strange but at the moment I cannot reproduce the problem that was bugging me for hours a few days ago; and also on several occasions with versions 13. I will post an example when it shows up again.

The "merged copy" command should be something super-simple and it was grayed out most of the times - whatever I did (other than creating a lasso and expanding it, which is pretty silly).
However, I believe in smart software, there is no reason this command should be ever grayed out whatsoever. If the user chooses "merged copy" that is what one expects to happen - a copy of everything visible , there should be no need to select anything. If using a lasso, the copy would be restricted to the selection as it is the case now. I would expect the editor to be smart and have the command working even on a single layer (just as extreme example, although a bit absurd). If the user wants a merged copy of a single layer; yes, he should get it. It should be always enabled and working not only in cases "when it would copy other things then the normal copy command does".

User avatar
Koyaanis
Mitglied
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon 25 Sep 2006 20:23

Post by Koyaanis » Sat 17 Nov 2007 03:42

Lutz, I see your point. I guess I use it so seldom that I never considered the issue. It might be nice that if there is no selection, as you say, that it automatically does a selection of all visible layers. I've since added the merged-copy command onto my right-click context menu, to see if it being right there in my workspace I might make more use of it.

I suppose there's always the option of creating an action to do a select-all/merged-copy and then adding it to a right-click context menu? But then that would depend on starting out on a max-dimension layer before using it.

Maybe it'll be considered for a feature improvement?

(Now I need to hunt down where that lasso-maximize function is, that you infer might be available. :-) )

lutz
Mitglied
Posts: 376
Joined: Wed 12 Apr 2006 19:53

Post by lutz » Sat 17 Nov 2007 03:57

Koyaanis,

For me this function would be very useful because, I really like to have "merged copies" (made invisible then) in my layer stack to have a reminder of where I was at with the editing at this point.

No, there is no lasso maximize function that I know of; I meant dragging the the lasso to cover the complete image.

User avatar
Koyaanis
Mitglied
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon 25 Sep 2006 20:23

Post by Koyaanis » Sat 17 Nov 2007 05:14

An interesting use for that function. I like the idea.

And thanks for letting me know that you have to click-drag to maximize a selection too. Or I would have been hunting for that button all night. :-)

My problem is that it's so easy to drag a tool outside of my working area. I wish they could all be constrained to work within the bounds of my original photo. Maybe that's another thing/option I just haven't found yet.

User avatar
Hoogo
Betatester
Posts: 3865
Joined: Sun 03 Jul 2005 13:35
Location: Mülheim/Ruhr

Post by Hoogo » Sat 17 Nov 2007 11:25

I just found that merged copy :) Lutz' suggestion that it should always work seems good to me, too.
By the way I relaized that Ctrl+A,-D,-I behave differently whether the selection tool is activated, the layer tool is activated or the layer tool is activated and a selection exists. Mybe that's the point why Ctrl+A seems not to work sometimes?

lutz
Mitglied
Posts: 376
Joined: Wed 12 Apr 2006 19:53

Post by lutz » Thu 22 Nov 2007 04:21

The command "merged copy" remains an enigma - it is almost always grayed out when working with multiple layers of varying opacities - and I still have not figured under which conditions it is available and when not.

The fastest reliable way of getting a simple merged copy of the complete image is somewhat annoying:

- edit > select all
- edit > copy
- select the topmost layer in the stack
- edit > paste as selection
- context menu of the layers dialog > Reduce to one Layer (since the copied layers are marked already).

I hope the "merged copy" command can be changed so that is always available, no matter which tool is currently used and no matter if ( or if not) the simple copy command could to the trick at the moment also - as discussed in the posts above.
(Preferentially automatically copying the entire merged image; and only a selection if a lasso is used.)

Just one example of many.
http://www.simplexx.net/actions/test2.pld

Martin Huber
Entwickler
Entwickler
Posts: 3696
Joined: Tue 19 Nov 2002 15:49

Post by Martin Huber » Thu 22 Nov 2007 11:21

lutz wrote:I hope the "merged copy" command can be changed so that is always available, no matter which tool is currently used and no matter if ( or if not) the simple copy command could to the trick at the moment also - as discussed in the posts above.
"Copy merged" is not dependant of the active tool, but the creation of a lasso is, and currently "Copy Merged" needs a lasso.

We will change this, so that "Copy Merged" can always be used, if there is at least a single layer. If there is a lasso, the lasso area is copied, and if there is no lasso, the whole document is put on the clipboard (as a single image layer).

Martin

User avatar
greenmorpher
Mitglied
Posts: 943
Joined: Tue 29 May 2007 14:42
Location: Rabaul, Papua New Guinea

Post by greenmorpher » Thu 22 Nov 2007 13:40

That's a great idea, Martin. In fact, that will provide us with the utility of one capability of Canvas which I like -- when you render anything in Canvas to image format, it makes a copy of the original image(s)/vector(s) so that you always retain the original, unaltered.

In Canvas, you could then save that new image off separately if you wished, or use it as another layer along with what was already existing.

I've been achieving the same sort of outcome in PL32 by doing a "save as" under a new name, then rendering everything to one layer, but being able to Merge all layers to the clipboard, then paste that as a new document or into the existing document will be a much neater way of doing it.

Excellent.

Cheers, Geoff

Geoffrey Heard, Business Writer & Publisher

"Type & Layout: Are you communicating or just making pretty shapes" -- Revealed! The secrets of how you can use type and layout to turbocharge your messages in print. See the book at http://www.worsleypress.com