How can i embed fonts in the *pld format?
cheers
Embedding fonts
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Gerhard Huber
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Re: Embedding fonts
that's not possible.
Gerhard
Gerhard
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NoSi
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Re: Embedding fonts
Hi.ollie hat geschrieben:How can i embed fonts in the *pld format?
cheers
Why do you want to embed fonts? If you want to hand out a result to others, you may export a pdf and use the option (i am not shure if it is correctly translated, i am using a german version) "Alter Fonts to Vector" in the export dialog. Or you may change the text-layers into vector layers, to transfer a pld. But be aware that you loose your text-editing options then.
If you have to preserve all data, to work on an other machine, you have to pack your PLD together with the required font(s). They have to be installed on the target to use them there within the pld, so it would not help, to embed them into it.
Regards,
NoSi
Screencasts zu Photoline: http://www.buoa.de • Win 10x64 / PL64, immer und ausschließlich die aktuellste Beta-Version.
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greenmorpher
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Re: Embedding fonts
That's a big negative. It is absolutely normal for PDF translators to offer the alternative of embedding fonts so that the document will appear on other machines, with or without the same font set, exactly as it appeared when you made it.
In fact, that is the whole point of PDF -- the ability to do that was why Adobe invented the format in the first place with font embedding included. If fonts are not embedded, PDFs might look awful when viewed elsewhere. You lose control over the layout.
You should be very aware, Gerhard, that shipping bundles of fonts from machine to machine is not legal except for a some free or open source fonts. Font are licensed, just like PhotoLine, for use on one machine. I am shocked that you would advocate sending of a bundle of fonts for someone else to install on their machine so they could view your PDF.
The point about font embedding is that it allows the document to be viewed in the fonts used to make it but the fonts cannot be used by the viewer beyond reading the PDF.
In addition to viewing, with the current level of PDF technology, if you have fonts embedded, a limited amount of text editing can be done on the PDF document on other machines which do not have the fonts installed.
The point about fonts is that they are a small set of vectors which are repeated over and over again. So if you embed the fonts, the PDF does not have to store a separate vector for each letter, it stores a letter thing and calls up the font from within itself to display it just as PhotoLine (or any other program) called up font shapes from your fonts library when you were making the document.
Changing the fonts to outlines is not a viable alternative except for very small documents, e.g. an advertisement. It makes for huge PDF files because every single letter is a separate vector object written separately.
In addition, if printing is scaled up or down with the letters as outlines or paths, you lose subtle changes in letter form and spacing, known as "hinting", which is built into fonts so that as letters get bigger or smaller, they remain visually the same. For example, if you start off with a letter fairly big, the narrowest parts of the letter can be very narrow and we can still see them well. As you reduce the size of the letter, hinting allows the narrow parts to reduce by a lesser proportion so that we can still see them and they can still be printed.
If you have converted that letter to a vector object, and reduce it similarly, everything reduces exactly in proportion. The narrow parts might become very narrow indeed and might not even print dark enough for you to see; there might be a visual gap or there might not be a gap according to the luck of where the narrow part of the letter falls in the dot pattern of a printer.
So embedding fonts is very desirable and is one of the basic features of the PDF format, present from its genesis to avoid the technical and ownership problems of people exchanging, installing and uninstalling bundles of fonts not licensed to them, and the file size problems in anything but the smallest documents, caused by converting type to vector objects.
Cheers, Geoff
Geoffrey Heard
The Ad Doctor Online
Win business with the recession-busting "How to make great ads for (sm)all business: 99 real world advertising ideas to kickstart *your* business today". See http://www.worsleypress.com
In fact, that is the whole point of PDF -- the ability to do that was why Adobe invented the format in the first place with font embedding included. If fonts are not embedded, PDFs might look awful when viewed elsewhere. You lose control over the layout.
You should be very aware, Gerhard, that shipping bundles of fonts from machine to machine is not legal except for a some free or open source fonts. Font are licensed, just like PhotoLine, for use on one machine. I am shocked that you would advocate sending of a bundle of fonts for someone else to install on their machine so they could view your PDF.
The point about font embedding is that it allows the document to be viewed in the fonts used to make it but the fonts cannot be used by the viewer beyond reading the PDF.
In addition to viewing, with the current level of PDF technology, if you have fonts embedded, a limited amount of text editing can be done on the PDF document on other machines which do not have the fonts installed.
The point about fonts is that they are a small set of vectors which are repeated over and over again. So if you embed the fonts, the PDF does not have to store a separate vector for each letter, it stores a letter thing and calls up the font from within itself to display it just as PhotoLine (or any other program) called up font shapes from your fonts library when you were making the document.
Changing the fonts to outlines is not a viable alternative except for very small documents, e.g. an advertisement. It makes for huge PDF files because every single letter is a separate vector object written separately.
In addition, if printing is scaled up or down with the letters as outlines or paths, you lose subtle changes in letter form and spacing, known as "hinting", which is built into fonts so that as letters get bigger or smaller, they remain visually the same. For example, if you start off with a letter fairly big, the narrowest parts of the letter can be very narrow and we can still see them well. As you reduce the size of the letter, hinting allows the narrow parts to reduce by a lesser proportion so that we can still see them and they can still be printed.
If you have converted that letter to a vector object, and reduce it similarly, everything reduces exactly in proportion. The narrow parts might become very narrow indeed and might not even print dark enough for you to see; there might be a visual gap or there might not be a gap according to the luck of where the narrow part of the letter falls in the dot pattern of a printer.
So embedding fonts is very desirable and is one of the basic features of the PDF format, present from its genesis to avoid the technical and ownership problems of people exchanging, installing and uninstalling bundles of fonts not licensed to them, and the file size problems in anything but the smallest documents, caused by converting type to vector objects.
Cheers, Geoff
Geoffrey Heard
The Ad Doctor Online
Win business with the recession-busting "How to make great ads for (sm)all business: 99 real world advertising ideas to kickstart *your* business today". See http://www.worsleypress.com
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Hoogo
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Re: Embedding fonts
Well...
Photoline can embed fonts into PDF, it all was about PLD
But I'm not sure what happens when I open a PDF with embeddded, but not installed fonts in PL. I created a testfile here at work and have sent it home, I will see.
Photoline can embed fonts into PDF, it all was about PLD
But I'm not sure what happens when I open a PDF with embeddded, but not installed fonts in PL. I created a testfile here at work and have sent it home, I will see.
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greenmorpher
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Re: Embedding fonts
In a funny sort of way, Hoogo.
PL will embed only TT fonts that are allowed. TT fonts can contain a line of code that forbids embedding.
On the other hand, PS-1 fonts cannot be prevented from embedding; PDF didn't exist when they were developed aspart of the devleopment of PostScirpt generally. TT came later -- Apple developed them during a spat with Adobe, then it sold the tehcnology on to Microsoft who developed them further.
Why does PL embed only TT fonts?
You tell me.
On the other hand, Andrew Stone over at Stone Create has a PDF filter that will embed only PS-1 fonts. He also has a little utility to translate TT fonts into PS-1 format so they can be embedded.
Are we confused? Someone ought to be. Both TT and PS-1 fonts are PostScript. PDF is derived from PostScript.
The statement in the PL32 manual that PDF files are hugely bloated if fonts are embedded is misleading. Think about it -- we all know how big a font is; we can look in out fonts folder and see a font might be 400 KB in size overall -- I just checked in mine and that was the size of a PS-1 font family with six variations. That's a bigger than average font -- most have four variations, normal, italic, bold and bold italic, and run around 300 KB.
Now, if I am using that font and another font for an advertisement with 100-200 words in it, then embedding the entire two fonts will add going on for 1 MB to the file size. Embedding only the the letters used (a possibility) would probably add nearly half a megabyte to the to the size of the file -- beingpart of a font carries some overhead. Converting the letters to individual vectors would make for a smaller file.
BUT if I am producing a book, which I do, embedding that font will not add hugely to the size of the file because each of those shapes in the font file will be used over and over again, thousands of times. If every one of those shapes was a separate vector, then thousands of individual shapes would bloat the file enormously.
I am just launching a new book selling as a PDF. It runs 145 pages and 25 MB with embedded fonts and high quality pix. I am willing to bet that would run to at least twice that, maybe more, with all text converted to outlines or separate vector shapes. You can download a sample of this book, How to make great ads for (sm)all business... by going to my site, http://www.worsleypress.com, clicking on the "Buy or Download" button, then clicking on the button "Get Free Preview".
Does it show up on your computer as I intended -- as I laid it out? Do you have Cheltenham, Eras, Frutiger, Tekton and Impact fonts loaded on to your machine? Maybe, maybe not. Regardless, you don't need them because they are embedded. And because the fonts are embedded, the files are a reasonable size.
With fonts embedded, the 27 page sample of the book is is 2 MB (it includes pictures, I have set them to very low quality for screen viewing only in the sample). More than half of that book sample is text.
I just copied about a page of that text, put it on a page of its own, and changed the text to outlines. Then I saved it as a PDF. No pix -- just one page of text. 300 KB -- nearly a third of a megabyte. So assuming the sample is about two-thirds text (which it is, take a look), if all the text were converted to outlines, to individual vector shapes, the 27 page download would run about 6 MB instead of 2 MB.
Most of the embedded fonts are PS-1; one or two of them are TT. It doesn't matter -- they are both embedded and the world's biggest digital publisher, Lightning Source, can run the PDF files happily. They print my book, Type & Layout: Are you communicating or just making pretty shapes?, wshich contains azbout a hundred different fonts, all embedded, and a mixture of PS-1 and TT.
Enough said? Do we want embedded fonts? If we are doing longer documents, we surely do. If we are scaling up in printing, then we do too -- see my earlier post and its discussion of hinting. Do we want PS-1 fonts embedded? Of course we do -- the world is full of PS-1 fonts, some of the best fonts in the world are PS-1, and we know they can be embedded in PDFs -- everyone else does it.
Cheers, Geoff
Geoffrey Heard
The Ad Doctor Online
Win business with the recession-busting "How to make great ads for (sm)all business: 99 real world advertising ideas to kickstart *your* business today". See http://www.worsleypress.com
PL will embed only TT fonts that are allowed. TT fonts can contain a line of code that forbids embedding.
On the other hand, PS-1 fonts cannot be prevented from embedding; PDF didn't exist when they were developed aspart of the devleopment of PostScirpt generally. TT came later -- Apple developed them during a spat with Adobe, then it sold the tehcnology on to Microsoft who developed them further.
Why does PL embed only TT fonts?
You tell me.
On the other hand, Andrew Stone over at Stone Create has a PDF filter that will embed only PS-1 fonts. He also has a little utility to translate TT fonts into PS-1 format so they can be embedded.
Are we confused? Someone ought to be. Both TT and PS-1 fonts are PostScript. PDF is derived from PostScript.
The statement in the PL32 manual that PDF files are hugely bloated if fonts are embedded is misleading. Think about it -- we all know how big a font is; we can look in out fonts folder and see a font might be 400 KB in size overall -- I just checked in mine and that was the size of a PS-1 font family with six variations. That's a bigger than average font -- most have four variations, normal, italic, bold and bold italic, and run around 300 KB.
Now, if I am using that font and another font for an advertisement with 100-200 words in it, then embedding the entire two fonts will add going on for 1 MB to the file size. Embedding only the the letters used (a possibility) would probably add nearly half a megabyte to the to the size of the file -- beingpart of a font carries some overhead. Converting the letters to individual vectors would make for a smaller file.
BUT if I am producing a book, which I do, embedding that font will not add hugely to the size of the file because each of those shapes in the font file will be used over and over again, thousands of times. If every one of those shapes was a separate vector, then thousands of individual shapes would bloat the file enormously.
I am just launching a new book selling as a PDF. It runs 145 pages and 25 MB with embedded fonts and high quality pix. I am willing to bet that would run to at least twice that, maybe more, with all text converted to outlines or separate vector shapes. You can download a sample of this book, How to make great ads for (sm)all business... by going to my site, http://www.worsleypress.com, clicking on the "Buy or Download" button, then clicking on the button "Get Free Preview".
Does it show up on your computer as I intended -- as I laid it out? Do you have Cheltenham, Eras, Frutiger, Tekton and Impact fonts loaded on to your machine? Maybe, maybe not. Regardless, you don't need them because they are embedded. And because the fonts are embedded, the files are a reasonable size.
With fonts embedded, the 27 page sample of the book is is 2 MB (it includes pictures, I have set them to very low quality for screen viewing only in the sample). More than half of that book sample is text.
I just copied about a page of that text, put it on a page of its own, and changed the text to outlines. Then I saved it as a PDF. No pix -- just one page of text. 300 KB -- nearly a third of a megabyte. So assuming the sample is about two-thirds text (which it is, take a look), if all the text were converted to outlines, to individual vector shapes, the 27 page download would run about 6 MB instead of 2 MB.
Most of the embedded fonts are PS-1; one or two of them are TT. It doesn't matter -- they are both embedded and the world's biggest digital publisher, Lightning Source, can run the PDF files happily. They print my book, Type & Layout: Are you communicating or just making pretty shapes?, wshich contains azbout a hundred different fonts, all embedded, and a mixture of PS-1 and TT.
Enough said? Do we want embedded fonts? If we are doing longer documents, we surely do. If we are scaling up in printing, then we do too -- see my earlier post and its discussion of hinting. Do we want PS-1 fonts embedded? Of course we do -- the world is full of PS-1 fonts, some of the best fonts in the world are PS-1, and we know they can be embedded in PDFs -- everyone else does it.
Cheers, Geoff
Geoffrey Heard
The Ad Doctor Online
Win business with the recession-busting "How to make great ads for (sm)all business: 99 real world advertising ideas to kickstart *your* business today". See http://www.worsleypress.com
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Hoogo
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Re: Embedding fonts
So you want PL to embed PS-1 fonts in PDF, too, and not only TT-Fonts?
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ollie
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Re: Embedding fonts
more features the betterHoogo hat geschrieben:So you want PL to embed PS-1 fonts in PDF, too, and not only TT-Fonts?
so why can t i embed in pld ??
this opens the possiblity for enterprise license?
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lutz
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Re: Embedding fonts
Perhaps, embedding fonts in the files of creative applications will create legal problems? I am pretty sure the font foundries would not like it.
In case of Adobe only the "publication" file format can embed fonts and none of their other formats.
In case of Adobe only the "publication" file format can embed fonts and none of their other formats.
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Hoogo
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Re: Embedding fonts
I have just checked my tets-PDF with embedded fonts that are not installed on my system.
Foxit reader kan display the pdf as expected.
Photoline does not really ignore the embedded font... It displays the name of that font and asks me to choose an installed font for substitution. Seems to me that some routine in the program can only work with really installed fonts. As long as this does not change embedding fonts would be useless.
Foxit reader kan display the pdf as expected.
Photoline does not really ignore the embedded font... It displays the name of that font and asks me to choose an installed font for substitution. Seems to me that some routine in the program can only work with really installed fonts. As long as this does not change embedding fonts would be useless.
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greenmorpher
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Re: Embedding fonts
Hoogo sez:
The point about embedding fonts is to get the appearance and output right when the document is transferred from the originating machine.
Cheers, Geoff
Geoffrey Heard
The Ad Doctor Online
Win business with the recession-busting "How to make great ads for (sm)all business: 99 real world advertising ideas to kickstart *your* business today". See http://www.worsleypress.com
You mean PL won't open the file using the embedded fonts as such? That's fine and fair. That's meant to be what it is all about. The embedded fonts are for presentation of the document and for reading it -- and in PDF these days, for limited editing in a PDF program. They aren't there for transfer of the fonts from one "PDF creation" program to another on a different machine. Fonts are licensed to one machine (or specific multiple seats).Photoline does not really ignore the embedded font... It displays the name of that font and asks me to choose an installed font for substitution. Seems to me that some routine in the program can only work with really installed fonts. As long as this does not change embedding fonts would be useless.
The point about embedding fonts is to get the appearance and output right when the document is transferred from the originating machine.
Cheers, Geoff
Geoffrey Heard
The Ad Doctor Online
Win business with the recession-busting "How to make great ads for (sm)all business: 99 real world advertising ideas to kickstart *your* business today". See http://www.worsleypress.com
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lutz
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Re: Embedding fonts
Hi Geoff,
I just got your advertising e-book. Very readable "do's and don'ts" instructions.
This will certainly come in handy the next time I dabble in designing an ad?
Lutz
I just got your advertising e-book. Very readable "do's and don'ts" instructions.
This will certainly come in handy the next time I dabble in designing an ad?
Lutz
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greenmorpher
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Re: Embedding fonts
Excellent, Lutz -- I saw the purchase and wondered whether it was you. All the best with it; I'll be interested in seeing what you do.
Cheers, Geoff
Geoffrey Heard
The Ad Doctor Online
Win business with the recession-busting "How to make great ads for (sm)all business: 99 real world advertising ideas to kickstart *your* business today". See http://www.worsleypress.com
Cheers, Geoff
Geoffrey Heard
The Ad Doctor Online
Win business with the recession-busting "How to make great ads for (sm)all business: 99 real world advertising ideas to kickstart *your* business today". See http://www.worsleypress.com