How placeholders work?

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Simon
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How placeholders work?

Post by Simon »

Hi,

Do you know how the placehorders works?
From the manual:
"6.2.11 Placeholder Layer
The Placeholder Layer tool is used to create placeholder layers (see chapter 2.3.7). In the Tool Settings the option Show File Panel allows you to choose whether a file is inserted directly after creation."

In chapter 2.3.7 is mentioned a "Placeholder Layer tool" but there is not a way to find it or how to use it but by going to chapter 6.2.11 that tells to search the "Tool Settings the option Show File Panel " but neither explains where is it.

Thank you.
Martin Huber
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Re: How placeholders work?

Post by Martin Huber »

The Placeholder Layer tool is at the same place as the the vector shape tools. A long click opens a list and it is there at the bottom.
PlaceholderTool.png
Its position in indirectly given by its following tool: the text tool.

Martin
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Simon
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Re: How placeholders work?

Post by Simon »

Thank you very much.

It would take me a few years to find it by myself, as I found the Measurement Tool from the Magnifier ones. :D
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Herbert123
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Re: How placeholders work?

Post by Herbert123 »

Another method is to click the "New Layer" button at the bottom of the layer panel, and select "Placeholder layer" from the drop-down list.

Or switch to the Layer tool (Q), hold down the <CTRL> key, and click OR drag in the document/canvas: this creates a new layer, and the type of layer can be picked from that same drop-down list.

To convert a selection of one or more layers/groups to a placeholder layer, use the menu bar Layout-->Placeholder-->Create from Layer.
Which perhaps should be renamed to "Create From Selected Layer(s)" for more clarity.

I generally keep the Layer panel open at all times, and convert selected layers to Placeholder layers with the Type drop-down. Or use the Layer-->Convert Layer Type menu option.

To create linked placeholder layers, drag an image file or PhotoLine file into the document while holding down the <OPTION> key.

I would welcome an additional entry in the right-mouse click contextual menu when right-mouse clicking a selection of layers to convert to a Placeholder layer. To me Placeholder are pretty much identical to Photoshop's Smart Objects, and Placeholder layers have an important enough status to warrant that.

I agree that the Placeholder tool should be moved from the vector object list. A placeholder is not a vector object, in my opinion, and a unique important tool.
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christhanah274
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Re: How placeholders work?

Post by christhanah274 »

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Last edited by christhanah274 on Thu 18 Feb 2021 05:03, edited 2 times in total.
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OldRadioGuy
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Re: How placeholders work?

Post by OldRadioGuy »

Simon wrote: Thu 07 Feb 2019 05:19 Do you know how the placeholders works?
But the answers given here don't really answer the original question. They explain how to find it and how to implement it.

But what does it do? What is the advantage of using it?
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Herbert123
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Re: How placeholders work?

Post by Herbert123 »

OldRadioGuy wrote: Fri 29 May 2020 21:05
Simon wrote: Thu 07 Feb 2019 05:19 Do you know how the placeholders works?
But the answers given here don't really answer the original question. They explain how to find it and how to implement it.

But what does it do? What is the advantage of using it?
Placeholders are similar in concept as Smart Objects in Photoshop, Comps in After Effects, or linked scenes in Blender (look it up if you have never heard of those):

1) PhotoLine allows for a mostly non-destructive workflow and instanced virtual layers. This is awesome, but comes with a caveat when a composition becomes complex with many live adjustment layers: processing goes up, and things slow down. Converting groups of layers to placeholders allow PhotoLine to render those parts only once, reducing processing.

2) While many effects are non-destructive, some are not. Likewise, external Photoshop compatible plugins are applied destructively. Converting a layer or layers to a placeholder layer allows many of these ordinarily destructive effects to be applied non-destructively.

3) Placeholders are great for organizational purposes: Instead of dealing with hundreds of layers in the same layer stack, placing related groups of layers in their own placeholder(s) frees up the main layer stack.

4) Files can be placed as links. When a PhotoLine, svg, psd, ai, etc. file is dragged into your document while holding down the ALT key, an external placeholder layer is placed instead. This is a huge advantage when working with documents. (The reasons are self-explanatory!)

5) Placeholders can be nested in other placeholders, allowing for a cascade of re-usable components. Save often-used components as PLD files, and place these as externally linked placeholders in your files. For example, a logo. If the client changes that logo, all the past client work is updated with the new version, without any manual intervention!

6) in case it wasn't made clear in (2): many external Photoshop compatible plugins become live adjustable effects when applied to a placeholder layer. This is quite unique, and I believe only Fireworks and Photoshop itself allow for this otherwise.

In short, placeholder are 'da bomb'.
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shijan
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Re: How placeholders work?

Post by shijan »

Wow, that's a lot of really useful info. Placeholders always where some sort of unexplored area for me.
Herbert123 wrote: Sat 30 May 2020 18:28 4) Files can be placed as links. When a PhotoLine, svg, psd, ai, etc. file is dragged into your document while holding down the ALT key, an external placeholder layer is placed instead. This is a huge advantage when working with documents. (The reasons are self-explanatory!)
Can i somehow use external file inside placeholder inside PLD document as a link? So PLD document will contain only color corrections and link to image source, but not actual large sized image file?
Currently if i create Placeholder layer and put image inside it, it always affects PLD total file size.

Image
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Martin Huber
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Re: How placeholders work?

Post by Martin Huber »

shijan wrote: Thu 09 Jul 2020 19:06 Can i somehow use external file inside placeholder inside PLD document as a link? So PLD document will contain only color corrections and link to image source, but not actual large sized image file?
There are several ways:
- There is the menu command "File > Open As Placeholder" which will always create a link to the original file.
- If you drag a file onto a document while holding Cmd+Alt (on macOS), it will create a link.
- The Placeholder Tool has an option in the Tool Settings whether the created placeholder layer should embed a file or link to it.
- For raw files there is an option to create a file-based placeholder in the settings/preferences at "File > Raw".

Martin
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shijan
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Re: How placeholders work?

Post by shijan »

"File > Open As Placeholder" works great! It helps a lot when i need create multiple color correction versions of same file and compare them side by side in separate windows. No more mess of multiple temporary copies of same file source.
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shijan
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Re: How placeholders work?

Post by shijan »

Should it work like this?:

File -> Open as Placeholder
Switch to "Document mode"
Crop
Apply adjustment layer
---
Adjustment layer don't creates mask for itself based on cropped area.

(I just expect adjustments based on cropped area, but not based on hidden external document borders)
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Martin Huber
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Re: How placeholders work?

Post by Martin Huber »

shijan wrote: Sat 11 Jul 2020 02:11 Should it work like this?:

File -> Open as Placeholder
Switch to "Document mode"
Crop
Apply adjustment layer
---
Adjustment layer don't creates mask for itself based on cropped area.
What is "Apply adjustment layer"?

Adjustment layers restricted to the active layer ("Group with previous layer") are created having the size of that layer. Document wide adjustment layers are created in document size.

If you create an adjustment layer via "Layer > New Adjustment Layer > ...", the adjustment dialog has a button in the lower left corner for "Group with active layer".
If you create the new adjustment layer via the Adjustment Layer panel, the menu you chose the adjustment from also has an entry "Group with previous layer".

Martin
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shijan
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Re: How placeholders work?

Post by shijan »

Yep, seems some things just worked not as i expected and this cause a little confusion. And it appears it was not related to Placeholder at all. Here is explanation:
- Document crop.
- Apply Adjustment filter inside layer.
- Move Adjustment filter to document.
- Adjustment filter mask keep using external document border, instead of "new" cropped document border.
Image

But when i apply Adjustment filter from start to document - it works as expected. Filter mask use cropped document border.
Image
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