Optimize HDR layer glitches out

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Martin Huber
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Re: Optimize HDR layer glitches out

Post by Martin Huber »

freeqstyler wrote: Wed 09 Dec 2020 21:03Please clarify whether I understand it properly - the Activate Color Management option (the one in Edit->Options->Color Management->Devices) allows the user to override the system-wide ICC profile settings and if it is disabled, Photoline should use the default profile set in the system (in my case sRGB IEC61966-2.1), but still honor the ones specified per layer/placeholder/document. It seems to work like that in case of this file (and my other projects as well, so I presume this is inteded by design):
If you disable color management, PhotoLine ignores all ICC profiles, so usually you should never disable color management.

Martin
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shijan
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Re: Optimize HDR layer glitches out

Post by shijan »

freeqstyler wrote: Thu 10 Dec 2020 15:15
shijan wrote: Thu 10 Dec 2020 11:06 ... and my sRGB linear -> RED Log3G10/RED WideGamut -> sRGB with luma/saturation mapping LUT doesn't work :)
Would it work if you converted your LUT to an ICC profile and then assigned it to the image? Of course you would lose control over fine-tuning but if all you want is to convert one color space to another, it theoretically should work, right?
LUTs have their own limits in precision. 65x65x65 LUT is more than enough for complicated color transformations like color correction or film emulation. But when it goes to 32 bit tone mapping, or some mathematically heavy Linear to Log gamma transformations, tonal curve with 65 points is just not precise enough. Even basic 8 bit ICC profile use 256 points tonal curve, and in most cases ICC profiles use 1024. I guess even if you figure how to generate proper 3D LUT for tone mapping it will produce some banding and posterization, and will be far from perfect starting point.

By the way, i wonder why did you use placeholder in your example file? Placing HDR tool inside layer seems more than enough to make things work as they should.

Also here is the question - "Optimize HDR" tool have it's own Gamma slider. So formally you can attach to layer basic sRGB ICC profile without Linear gamma checkbox and simply adjust gamma inside "Optimize HDR" tool. Is this technically correct way to go? Or is it technically better always apply Linear profile to EXR layer, and transform Linear to sRGB gamma with Color management (Layer to Document ICC profile)?
PhotoLine UI Icons Customization Project: https://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6302
Martin Huber
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Re: Optimize HDR layer glitches out

Post by Martin Huber »

freeqstyler wrote: Thu 10 Dec 2020 08:33
shijan wrote: Wed 09 Dec 2020 22:17 Note that Color managed Isolated Group introduced only in version 22.90b1.
Eureka, and there's the culprit! When I put the placeholder "banner3d" into an isolated group the profile from exr magically starts working.
If you did turn off color management, then this is an error and I will fix it.

Martin
freeqstyler
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Re: Optimize HDR layer glitches out

Post by freeqstyler »

Martin Huber wrote: Thu 10 Dec 2020 15:23 If you disable color management, PhotoLine ignores all ICC profiles, so usually you should never disable color management.
Martin Huber wrote: Thu 10 Dec 2020 16:15 If you did turn off color management, then this is an error and I will fix it.
Ok, thank you for clarification.
shijan wrote: Thu 10 Dec 2020 15:46 By the way, i wonder why did you use placeholder in your example file? Placing HDR tool inside layer seems more than enough to make things work as they should.
Placeholders are an important part of my workflow. Often I have to process tens of renders with several render passes and similar post-process settings in short time. The fastest way to move from one render to another is to change only placeholder content and then fine tune settings/paint new masks etc. Linked files in placeholders are also very helpful in case I have to re-render.
freeqstyler
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Re: Optimize HDR layer glitches out

Post by freeqstyler »

shijan wrote: Thu 10 Dec 2020 15:46 Also here is the question - "Optimize HDR" tool have it's own Gamma slider. So formally you can attach to layer basic sRGB ICC profile without Linear gamma checkbox and simply adjust gamma inside "Optimize HDR" tool. Is this technically correct way to go? Or is it technically better always apply Linear profile to EXR layer, and transform Linear to sRGB gamma with Color management (Layer to Document ICC profile)?
The result is the same (or very similar) in both cases, but since Optimize HDR has a default Gamma value of 1.0 you would have to manually change it to 2.2 and manually assign that basic sRGB profile to the layer, which is basically a waste of time.