Canon EOS 30D support

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gdoten
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Canon EOS 30D support

Post by gdoten » Thu 26 Oct 2006 02:15

Will PL32 support (be able to open and properly display) .cr2 image files produced by Canon EOS 30D cameras soon? I'm sure the PL developers know this, but the .cr2 image files produced by the 30D does not contain the same data as those produced by a 20D even though both cameras use .cr2 for their file extension (I sure wish Canon chose unique file extensions for the 20D and 30D files). Further, none of my 30D's image files open correctly with PL32 13.01. I have plenty of sample image files if you need them.

Thanks.

-glenn-

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Gerhard Huber
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Re: Canon EOS 30D support

Post by Gerhard Huber » Thu 26 Oct 2006 07:08

gdoten wrote:Will PL32 support (be able to open and properly display) .cr2 image files produced by Canon EOS 30D cameras soon? I'm sure the PL developers know this, but the .cr2 image files produced by the 30D does not contain the same data as those produced by a 20D even though both cameras use .cr2 for their file extension (I sure wish Canon chose unique file extensions for the 20D and 30D files). Further, none of my 30D's image files open correctly with PL32 13.01. I have plenty of sample image files if you need them.
I have here just one image from a Canon EOS 30D and PL32 version 13.01 loads it fine. What does PL32 with your images - doesn't PL32 load it or are they shown incorrect?

Gerhard

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Post by gdoten » Thu 26 Oct 2006 13:17

They are not shown correctly. Would you like some of the files to try?

Are you saying that PL has code in it for reading 30D-produced .cr2 files? If so, I don't think it is decoding the data properly.

Thanks.

-glenn-

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Gerhard Huber
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Post by Gerhard Huber » Thu 26 Oct 2006 14:00

gdoten wrote:They are not shown correctly. Would you like some of the files to try?
Are you saying that PL has code in it for reading 30D-produced .cr2 files? If so, I don't think it is decoding the data properly.
Since the files are very big, please send just one file.

Gerhard
[support@pl32.com]

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Post by gdoten » Thu 26 Oct 2006 17:48

First, Gerhard, could you please answer this question:

"Are you saying that PL has code in it for reading 30D-produced .cr2 files?"

I would appreciate it.

Where should I send the image?

-glenn-

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Gerhard Huber
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Post by Gerhard Huber » Thu 26 Oct 2006 19:41

gdoten wrote:First, Gerhard, could you please answer this question:
"Are you saying that PL has code in it for reading 30D-produced .cr2 files?"
I already told you that it loads the test image from a 30D here fine.

gdoten wrote:Where should I send the image?
You can send a screenshot of the loaded image, perhaps I can solve the problem this way.
You can send a test image to "support@pl32.com"

Gerhard

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Post by gdoten » Thu 26 Oct 2006 20:16

I already told you that it loads the test image from a 30D here fine.
Excuse me, but perhaps there is a language problem here. My question was, "Are you saying that PL has code in it for reading 30D-produced .cr2 files?" not "can PL open a 30D image pulled from the Internet and place a semblance of the image on the user's screen?" These are two very different questions, and I never asked the question that you answered (the second one).

I would like to know--and you may not know the answer--whether the current version of PL (version 13.01) that is posted on the PL website has code in it to explicitly read a .cr2 image file produced by a Canon EOS 30D camera or not. As a potential future customer, and as a Canon EOS 30D camera owner, I'd like to know the answer to this question.

Any information about this that you can supply would be appreciated.

Thank you.

-glenn-

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Post by Hoogo » Thu 26 Oct 2006 23:59

I don't know if this helps you, but the 350D also produces cr2-files that are different from the files of the 20D, and both open fine. At least I'm quite sure that I had my hands on some 350D-Raws, too... I'll ask my boss for some 30D-Raws tomorrow. For my 300D-files I had to change gamma to about 2.2, the original 1.0 made pictures really dark. Maybe that's your problem?

The language problems sounds quite funny to me, something like "No, I did not ask you to tell me the time (wrong answer: 22:00), I asked if you can tell me the time (right answer: yes)" That's a quite common joke here, just the other direction :D

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Post by gdoten » Fri 27 Oct 2006 00:05

I don't know if this helps you, but the 350D also produces cr2-files that are different from the files of the 20D, and both open fine. At least I'm quite sure that I had my hands on some 350D-Raws, too... I'll ask my boss for some 30D-Raws tomorrow. For my 300D-files I had to change gamma to about 2.2, the original 1.0 made pictures really dark. Maybe that's your problem?
Wouldn't you agree that if you have to make adjustments to the image that the program is not properly interpretting the camera's raw data?

-glenn-

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Post by DJJohnson » Fri 27 Oct 2006 01:19

gdoten is the same person on Usenet that has posted nonsense questions and replies in a similar discussion about PL32, just to argue about something that he doesn't understand nor know how to do. It is clear on Usenet, as it is here, that gdoten does not understand the proper usage of RAW data nor how to use PL32 properly. In fact he has proven on Usenet that he doesn't even know what RAW data actually is. He thinks that the camera's RAW sensor RGBG data is the very same RGB data that appears in all his TIF, JPG, PNG and BMP files. (Just to give you an example of the level of understanding of the person you are dealing with.)

Gerhard and hoogo, I too have tested that 30D RAW file and PL32 reads and displays it just fine. In fact PL32 does this process better than most other programs that claim to import RAW EOS-30D data.

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Post by Hoogo » Fri 27 Oct 2006 01:19

gdoten wrote:Wouldn't you agree that if you have to make adjustments to the image that the program is not properly interpretting the camera's raw data?
That's quite a philosophical question :)
Normally: Yes.
In case of RAW: No. I've read quite some discussions in a german dslr-forum about Bibble, RSP/RSE, DPP, Dcraw, Adobes Dingsbums and all those raw-converters, and every one produces a different picture. Then there were discussions about wavelenghts, cutoff-frequencies, Infrared and spectral-colors interesting for astronomy. Then there is the eternal discussion "does a raw contain information in overexposured areas?","Is VNG or AHD the better interpolation for bayer-patterns","why are half of the values of a 12bit-information compressed into one exposure-step (don't know if that's the right english word for it)" and so on...

In the end I decides for me that there is no "correct" picture and that raw is no picture at all, but a bunch of numbers you can use to calculate a picture. I don't think that I'm the usual user, but I prefer this gamma-slider to a fixed, camera-dependent value.

On the other hand I always wanted to create the curves that turn a raw into a picture that looks exactly like a jpg out of the camera. Damn my laziness...

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Post by gdoten » Fri 27 Oct 2006 01:52

It's really not philosophical at all.
It's quite a simple question really.

Does PL know how to read the Canon 30D-specific data that is present in a 30D .cr2 file or not? Why is this question so difficult to answer?

-glenn-

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Post by DJJohnson » Fri 27 Oct 2006 02:02

While we're on the topic of RAW data ... there was an interesting discussion years ago about using the RAW data from an RGBG sensor to create ultra-high resolution B/W images. Instead of using the RGBG array to define one colored pixel, it could instead be used to make a B/W image of 2X's the camera's claimed resolution. (Resolution doubled in both horizontal and vertical lines, 1 sensor vs. 4 sensors.)

Is, or would, something like this be possible with PL32? I admit I've not explored all the RAW import and post-processing functions of PL32 in-depth. But I would see this as being a record-breaking feature if a program could produce B/W images of that resolution from the very same RAW data that's used to create color images. Imagine your camera of 5 mega-pixels (in color) being able to recreate the same resolution as a 20 mega-pixel image in B/W. Considering the astrophotography and microscopy imaging that I do, color takes a back seat where resolution is of primary importance. It might even be possible to use cyan, magenta, and yellow filters in front of the lens to recreate an ultra-high resolution image from 3 B/W frames. (I don't see why camera makers didn't explore this possibility, by just rotating a very fast color-wheel in front of a CCD array that's devoid of its color-filter layer.)

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Post by gdoten » Fri 27 Oct 2006 02:12

Behold the ravings of DJ:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/com ... 2ee6fc060/#

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/com ... 188d27a21/#

I made the mistake of asking a question about Paint Shop Pro in their Usenet group about 16-bit TIFF images and was immediately attacked by this guy. Look at what he's posted in this forum.

After repeated requests for him to ask here about PL's support for the Canon 30D I got tired of his claims and asked the question here myself.

I would say his maniacal postings have put-off far more people from PL than anything else could have. A sort of reverse advertising, if you will. All he does is insult people, belittle them, attack them on a personal level, and can't even keep his postings on-topic in various newsgroups. No matter how much I have tried to hold rational, calm discussions with him he is incapable of being civil. He's a shameful human being and is the last person you would want touting your software.

My guess is that a Corel programmer dropped him on his head as a child and he's never gotten over it. :-)

-glenn-

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Post by gdoten » Fri 27 Oct 2006 02:17

DJJohnson wrote:He thinks that the camera's RAW sensor RGBG data is the very same RGB data that appears in all his TIF, JPG, PNG and BMP files.
That is something you have said; I sure never said that. The Usenet archives are there for everyone to read. Please stop putting words into my mouth.