Rationalizing and Simplifying the UI/UX of PL in 2025 - Part B: A proposal for non-modal approach
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Rationalizing and Simplifying the UI/UX of PL in 2025 - Part B: A proposal for non-modal approach
Dear users & developers: This is the second part of the proposal. It is far more extensive than part A. But I hope you all see the significance of what's being argued for here. It will significantly improve user experience, and will take PL where no one has gone so far. Screw AI junk. Adobe delenda est. This is the innovation we need.
As per usual, a number of caveats:
1. If these ideas were proposed and declined before, please ignore them and point me in the direction of the correct threads; so I can read up.
2. If these ideas already exist in PL then ignore them, and please point out to me how to achieve the desired result.
3. All iconography exists merely to illustrate the point. I also believe the recommendations themselves can be vastly improved.
I hope this kick starts a conversation and robust debate. Find the proposal here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ynbQpM ... sp=sharing
As per usual, a number of caveats:
1. If these ideas were proposed and declined before, please ignore them and point me in the direction of the correct threads; so I can read up.
2. If these ideas already exist in PL then ignore them, and please point out to me how to achieve the desired result.
3. All iconography exists merely to illustrate the point. I also believe the recommendations themselves can be vastly improved.
I hope this kick starts a conversation and robust debate. Find the proposal here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ynbQpM ... sp=sharing
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Re: Rationalizing and Simplifying the UI/UX of PL in 2025 - Part B: A proposal for non-modal approach
Even if those extra buttons aren't added like in the proposal, the windows being non-modal would still work - just realized.

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Re: Rationalizing and Simplifying the UI/UX of PL in 2025 - Part B: A proposal for non-modal approach
"An alternative to non-modal workflow: Pre-empting user intent" - one of the headings in the document has a typo. It should be "of"...
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Re: Rationalizing and Simplifying the UI/UX of PL in 2025 - Part B: A proposal for non-modal approach
This non-modal system described in your document may work OK for Layer Styles, especially if Layer Styles window UI will be changed to docking panel UI.
But for normal layers system, as described in your video, for me personally it feels not comfortable at all. It is very primitive and non flexible system. It may work for some basic and simple projects, but not for something multilayered and complex. Main problem that it is impossible to understand which effects applied to which layer without clicking to each layer. With current "classic" Adjustment Layers system you always see the fill structure, this is the reason why everybody use them.
But for normal layers system, as described in your video, for me personally it feels not comfortable at all. It is very primitive and non flexible system. It may work for some basic and simple projects, but not for something multilayered and complex. Main problem that it is impossible to understand which effects applied to which layer without clicking to each layer. With current "classic" Adjustment Layers system you always see the fill structure, this is the reason why everybody use them.
PhotoLine UI Icons Customization Project: https://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6302
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Re: Rationalizing and Simplifying the UI/UX of PL in 2025 - Part B: A proposal for non-modal approach
This is a good point, and I didn't illustrate it fully. I'm not suggesting that we get rid of classic adjustment layer system, but supplement it with the non-modal approach. Your point about multi-layered complex projects. It would still work, like this:shijan wrote: ↑Tue 04 Feb 2025 18:32
But for normal layers system, as described in your video, for me personally it feels not comfortable at all. It is very primitive and non flexible system. It may work for some basic and simple projects, but not for something multilayered and complex. Main problem that it is impossible to understand which effects applied to which layer without clicking to each layer. With current "classic" Adjustment Layers system you always see the fill structure, this is the reason why everybody use them.
Let us say, there are multiple curves adjustments in the layer list, I can either opt to have multiple windows open simultaneously, like the adjustment list. Or cycle through the adjustment layers one at a time, and the right layer will be highlighted within the layer panel. It reverse exactly what the user would do.
Presently, if I have multiple adjustments, I click on it, and it opens. In non-modal windows approach, I cycle through the adjustments with buttons in the window, and each time the right layer data is loaded, and right layer is highlighted. It would still be layer exclusive.
I don't know if you saw, the layers will also come up with default numbering. Thus avoiding confusion. So highlighting in layers panel + names on the window will ensure the user does not lose track of what's happening.
And take further note, having this as non-modal means, the user can interact with all other menus, lists, tools and so on.
For example, if you have two images with multiple different adjustments, and you're on image 1, in any adjustment window you may have open, only the data of image 1 will be shown. If image 1 does not have a particular adjustment, the window will simply have default data.
Thus you can work through even the most complicated project without any confusion. It only seems complex because of my written explanation; once you use it, suddenly, the classic system will seem unintuitive.
Perhaps I can show you an example of a complex, multi-layered photo compositing example. Give me until the weekend.
Last edited by Vivi_Ram on Tue 04 Feb 2025 18:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rationalizing and Simplifying the UI/UX of PL in 2025 - Part B: A proposal for non-modal approach
I agree about Color Filter. I always wish that it could be less "hidden" and available without open/close window. I use Color Filter a lot. Color Filter with Curves? - Maybe. Also my old old request was to add High Pass mode to Color Filter.
PhotoLine UI Icons Customization Project: https://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6302
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Re: Rationalizing and Simplifying the UI/UX of PL in 2025 - Part B: A proposal for non-modal approach
If it works like this in Xara, this is really funny. So if image use 20 filters, you need click on image and then click 20 times with arrows or use some drop menu to find that filter?Vivi_Ram wrote: ↑Tue 04 Feb 2025 18:41In non-modal windows approach, I cycle through the adjustments with buttons in the window, and each time the right layer data is loaded, and right layer is highlighted. It would still be layer exclusive.shijan wrote: ↑Tue 04 Feb 2025 18:32
But for normal layers system, as described in your video, for me personally it feels not comfortable at all. It is very primitive and non flexible system. It may work for some basic and simple projects, but not for something multilayered and complex. Main problem that it is impossible to understand which effects applied to which layer without clicking to each layer. With current "classic" Adjustment Layers system you always see the fill structure, this is the reason why everybody use them.

PhotoLine already have 2 different Adjustment Layers systems. One window based with OK/Close button and another Panel based.
Also Panel based system have an sub-system to create multi adjustments stacks and operate with stack as with single layer.
And also with code applied to PhotoLine.XML preferences file it is possible to disable pop-up window with OK/Close buttons at all, so window will not be shown even if you create new adjustment from menu or use shortcut.
PhotoLine UI Icons Customization Project: https://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6302
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Re: Rationalizing and Simplifying the UI/UX of PL in 2025 - Part B: A proposal for non-modal approach
No. As I said, that was just me trying to illustrate the point. Xara is not an image editing software. But a vector software with basic bitmap capabilities. As I said, the arrows are addition to normal scrolling and clicking + classic, calling up the adjustment by clicking on it. You can completely ignore the buttons, and it would still be sound. We don't really need the buttons, per se. They're just a nice-to-have. Not a must-have.shijan wrote: ↑Tue 04 Feb 2025 18:54If it works like this in Xara, this is really funny. So if image use 20 filters, you need click on image and then click 20 times with arrows or use some drop menu to find that filter?Vivi_Ram wrote: ↑Tue 04 Feb 2025 18:41In non-modal windows approach, I cycle through the adjustments with buttons in the window, and each time the right layer data is loaded, and right layer is highlighted. It would still be layer exclusive.shijan wrote: ↑Tue 04 Feb 2025 18:32
But for normal layers system, as described in your video, for me personally it feels not comfortable at all. It is very primitive and non flexible system. It may work for some basic and simple projects, but not for something multilayered and complex. Main problem that it is impossible to understand which effects applied to which layer without clicking to each layer. With current "classic" Adjustment Layers system you always see the fill structure, this is the reason why everybody use them.![]()
The fundamental idea is to slightly automate layer creation. And to allow interaction with the rest of the program.
Layer creation is a painfully repetitive step. In any design program. It need not be.
The best and most logical way to implement the idea is obviously up for discussion.
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Re: Rationalizing and Simplifying the UI/UX of PL in 2025 - Part B: A proposal for non-modal approach
Ignore even automatic layer creation. Ignore extra buttons for navigation. For the time being. Just making windows non-modal (thus allowing interaction with the rest of the program) ALONE will be a massive step up for adjustments, filters, effects and so on. This alongside layer properties like opacity, blend mode and blend options (colour filter) built into each window is a wonderful addition to what PL can do.
There are four ideas in here:
1. The most basic idea: Making all adjustments, filter effects, layer styles, colour filter windows non-modal
2. Add 1 and add layer options in each window: Opacity, blend mode, colour filter.
3. Add 1 and 2 and allow navigation of layer list and adjustment type list from each window
4. Add all three and automate layer creation based on adjustments made after selecting object.
You can ignore 3 if it is a bit much and confusing. 1 on it's own is a sound idea. 1+2 is a massive step up. 1+2+4 is dream come true.
There are four ideas in here:
1. The most basic idea: Making all adjustments, filter effects, layer styles, colour filter windows non-modal
2. Add 1 and add layer options in each window: Opacity, blend mode, colour filter.
3. Add 1 and 2 and allow navigation of layer list and adjustment type list from each window
4. Add all three and automate layer creation based on adjustments made after selecting object.
You can ignore 3 if it is a bit much and confusing. 1 on it's own is a sound idea. 1+2 is a massive step up. 1+2+4 is dream come true.
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Re: Rationalizing and Simplifying the UI/UX of PL in 2025 - Part B: A proposal for non-modal approach
@Martin & @Gerhard, if you think these ideas are worth exploring, here's a suggestion: you can probably build a experimental, nightly version and release for playing around. Maybe the users will have a chance to see if any of these ideas work. But I realise this is resource intensive. And wouldn't want you to pull you away from more important bug fixes and long requested improvements. You can just have these ideas in your arsenal and pull out when the time is appropriate for you. Just happy to contribute! 

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Re: Rationalizing and Simplifying the UI/UX of PL in 2025 - Part B: A proposal for non-modal approach
Hey Vivi_Ram. I am pretty new to all of this so excuse me if i got this wrong: This is about getting rid of UI elements getting the sole focus until you click cancel/ok, right?
From a usability perspective this is a no brainer. Everyting else makes no sense from the users perspective IMHO. I worry though that there is a reason this is the way lot's of apps do this (past to present). Can this be implemented in a breeze or are there underlying factors that would make this difficult, huge refactoring effort, lowering general performance etc.. ?
From a usability perspective this is a no brainer. Everyting else makes no sense from the users perspective IMHO. I worry though that there is a reason this is the way lot's of apps do this (past to present). Can this be implemented in a breeze or are there underlying factors that would make this difficult, huge refactoring effort, lowering general performance etc.. ?
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Re: Rationalizing and Simplifying the UI/UX of PL in 2025 - Part B: A proposal for non-modal approach
Hey @ogonek: this is a big ask indeed. Yes, it's exactly as you describe.
But I don't necessarily think that it would make the performance low. PL is a noticeably, astonishingly small program, and I'd think the developers have the full knowledge to implement this without the performance taking a hit.
Consider for instance smart objects. Smart objects in PS are really a workaround. Until affinity photo implemented live filters, they were the norm. Live filters truly are a huge step forward. Affinity's usability is compromised on other counts. But live filters, they get full marks. They also get full marks for compound masks and live masks.
So, whilst this might involve code refactoring, as I've acknowledged in my original prop document, the gains will be huge from a usability perspective.
I'm of course out of depth here. And I'll defer to the opinions of the developers. But I have laid out what I'd like to see as an end user.
And unless you have experienced a different possibility, you don't know what you're missing and how much better things could be. We should all be leaving PS far behind us. PS actively withholds innovation in industry.
But I don't necessarily think that it would make the performance low. PL is a noticeably, astonishingly small program, and I'd think the developers have the full knowledge to implement this without the performance taking a hit.
Consider for instance smart objects. Smart objects in PS are really a workaround. Until affinity photo implemented live filters, they were the norm. Live filters truly are a huge step forward. Affinity's usability is compromised on other counts. But live filters, they get full marks. They also get full marks for compound masks and live masks.
So, whilst this might involve code refactoring, as I've acknowledged in my original prop document, the gains will be huge from a usability perspective.
I'm of course out of depth here. And I'll defer to the opinions of the developers. But I have laid out what I'd like to see as an end user.
And unless you have experienced a different possibility, you don't know what you're missing and how much better things could be. We should all be leaving PS far behind us. PS actively withholds innovation in industry.
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Re: Rationalizing and Simplifying the UI/UX of PL in 2025 - Part B: A proposal for non-modal approach
As I said. I love non modal property editing. The more the better. There are programs that have a second layer of scope in those "me me me" popups for color adjustment or something. So you have to click "ok" twice!!!2! or else.
that's so annoying.
But if it meant some heavy code lifting which would slow down the progress of everything else, I'd rather live with focus grabbing menus.
Smart object/filters and lots of bought in stuff feels clunky and nailed on top in PS. Fact alone that in photoline I can transform a layer nondestructively without some stupid smart object side stepping was a huge wow from my side. (the whole layer attribute concept basically)

But if it meant some heavy code lifting which would slow down the progress of everything else, I'd rather live with focus grabbing menus.
Smart object/filters and lots of bought in stuff feels clunky and nailed on top in PS. Fact alone that in photoline I can transform a layer nondestructively without some stupid smart object side stepping was a huge wow from my side. (the whole layer attribute concept basically)
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Re: Rationalizing and Simplifying the UI/UX of PL in 2025 - Part B: A proposal for non-modal approach
Here is large sized animated gif example how it works in PotoLine. Nice simple. Blend modes and Opacity values are visible all together and available by single click. And anyone can understand this simple logic without any manual:

PhotoLine UI Icons Customization Project: https://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6302