OpenColorIO / *.ocio support

[Herbert123]

I asked this question way at the beginning of when I first started using PhotoLine back in 2013, but never really got a response.

Is OpenColorIO (ocio) support on the horizon? All 3d render and visual FX software use and support this, and it's become very popular (or pretty much the standard colour workflow). I ask, because I use the Filmic colour workflow while rendering in Blender, and with ocio support it would really simplify getting the identical colours when I open a rendered EXR file in PhotoLine. Krita also supports (actually requires) ocio with HDR imagery.

But PhotoLine still doesn't support an OpenColorIO workflow.

When I open a Blender rendered EXR file in Krita the colours are immediately displayed correct which uses icio.

For testing, You can find Blender's config.ocio file in the Blender installation folder in 2.81/datafiles/colormanagement

More info here:
https://opencolorio.org/

[Juan]

+1

[shijan]

As alternative you can try to port ArgyllCMS color management system. For example https://displaycal.net/ app based on this system can take two ICC profiles and generate color transform LUT from them. I use those custom made LUTs generated in displaycal 3D LUT Maker app to transform color spaces in document layers. Sort of separate LUT based color management. Works well as alternative to OpenColorIO adjustment layer. But sure OpenColorIO may be better and more flexible tool for real time color transform...

By the way there is also great app LUTCalc https://cameramanben.github.io/LUTCalc/ ... index.html https://github.com/cameramanben/LUTCalc Probably some color spaces and gamma transform options could be integrated in Photoline as well?

[shijan]

I just realized how amazing existing PhotoLine color management in Document mode. Not a direct replacement of OpenColorIO, and it may be slightly more complicated to setup and understand than stacked adjustment layers with color spaces transform LUTS or with OpenColorIO transforms, but it is also allow non baked color space transformations.

- If you have some raw scan image or some other image that comes with custom input ICC profile, you assign that input ICC profile to the image Layer.
- Next you assign preferred Working profile (for example ProPhotoRGB with L* gamma) to the Document.

In this combination Layer input ICC profile is converted in real time to Working document ICC profile and converted to monitor profile (for preview purposes only).
All adjustment layers use Working document ICC profile.
Image is exported with Working document ICC profile.
Web image export automatically converts Working document ICC profile to sRGB.

It is like use Input-Timeline-Output settings in DaVinci Resolve. 100% non destructive and very flexible. Things like this should be better promoted. The most confusing for beginners is "Document mode" definition. Before some forum suggestions i was sure that "Document mode" is dedicated only for some kind of multi page paper work. In reality it appears that "Document mode" is more like "Advanced Lossless mode" with multi page option for creating books, and "Picture mode" is sort of "Basic Limited Baked mode".

[shijan]

This also allow to combine different image sources with different input ICC profiles in one single color managed PLD project.

[Juan]

Thanks for the explanation, really appreciated. Nevertheless, would be great to have a native solution.

Cheers,
Juan

[Herbert123]

I am reopening this request. Back in 2013 I first asked about OCIO support for PhotoLine.

Fast forward 11 years, and OpenColorIO is the accepted digital colour management workflow in 3D, animation, VFX, and film. And making strides in other areas as well.

ICC-based colour management and other awkward work-arounds in PhotoLine are not a solution here. ICC is not perception based. ICC is not the answer. OCIO is. Everyone else (at least those relevant) supports OCIO in their software, but for PhotoLine... I work in Blender, Houdini, and DaVinci Resolve, and this is stunting the workflow between apps.

I've been working around this via Krita, but it's just become painful, and I'd love to be able to just open a Blender openEXR render, set the correct OCIO AgX view transform, set the look, and be on my merry way comping in PhotoLine an back again for export into Blender or DaVinci Resolve if required on the context.

Please implement this. Krita can give you a good sense of how to approach this.

[Herbert123]

PS notice the number of times this thread has been viewed.

Almost 10.000 times! That ought to be proof for users' interest in proper OCIO support...

[der_fotograf]

Almost 10.000 times! That ought to be proof for users' interest in proper OCIO support...

Definitely not, because you made the wrong conclusion. Most of the visitors wanted to know what »OCIO« is – like me. I'm more than 50 years in photography now and never ever needed »OCIO«. As far as I understand, it is coming from the motion picture industry. However, PL can not edit movies or videos, so »OCIO« is not urgently needed.

It's like the RGB histogram on digital cameras: Many users want waveform for the display, but most of them don't even know what they are talking about. For photography and image editing, nobody really requires waveform or OCIO to achieve stunning results.

[Herbert123]

Almost 10.000 times! That ought to be proof for users' interest in proper OCIO support...

Definitely not, because you made the wrong conclusion. Most of the visitors wanted to know what »OCIO« is – like me. I'm more than 50 years in photography now and never ever needed »OCIO«. As far as I understand, it is coming from the motion picture industry. However, PL can not edit movies or videos, so »OCIO« is not urgently needed.

It's like the RGB histogram on digital cameras: Many users want waveform for the display, but most of them don't even know what they are talking about. For photography and image editing, nobody really requires waveform or OCIO to achieve stunning results.

I could continue to discuss and explain the many reasons why OCIO should be implemented in PhotoLine (after all, if only to stay competitive, since all the major other players in the image editing market support OCIO) and why this is also super relevant for anyone using PhotoLine to edit 3d rendered stills (for example)...

...but what's the point.

Just too tired now.

[Hoogo]

PS notice the number of times this thread has been viewed. Almost 10.000 times! That ought to be proof for users' interest in proper OCIO support...

I just click on this thread because I click on anything

[shijan]

Long time ago it was Ps plug-in https://fnordware.blogspot.com/2017/02/ ... oshop.html but it is legacy 32 bit and not available for download anymore.
It is nice to have OpenColorIO in PhotoLine as adjustment layer.

[der_fotograf]

…
after all, if only to stay competitive, since all the major other players in the image editing market support OCIO)

Who are the »major« players exactly? Not in the movie or video biz, but in image editing for still photography?

and why this is also super relevant for anyone using PhotoLine to edit 3d rendered stills (for example)...

What exactly leads you to the assumption that OCIO is »super relevant« for anyone (including me!) to request OCIO? Just because of 10 or 20 PL users worldwide it doesn't make sense to include another »feature«.

In addition: Would you pay extra for the additional feature? I don't, because I will never use it. And I guess that more than 98% of the other users don't want it either.

[shijan]

ICC-based colour management and other awkward work-arounds in PhotoLine are not a solution here. ICC is not perception based. ICC is not the answer. OCIO is. Everyone else (at least those relevant) supports OCIO in their software, but for PhotoLine... I work in Blender, Houdini, and DaVinci Resolve, and this is stunting the workflow between apps.

Well, you can create Abstract ICC profiles or LUTs as they suggest https://opencolorio.org/old/CompatibleSoftware.html
"OpenColorIO display luts can be exported as ICC profiles for use in photoshop. The core idea is to create an .icc profile, with a valid description, and then to save it to the proper OS icc directory. (On OSX, ~/Library/ColorSync/Profiles/). Upon a Photoshop relaunch, Edit->Assign Profile, and then select your new OCIO lut."

Note that some adjustments (Exposure for example) in PhotoLine are color managed, so trey read color space and gamma from document ICC profile. If there is no ICC profile and normal color management disabled, they read color/gamma as sRGB. So it should be a warning that some adjustments will work incorrectly if use OCIO instead of normal ICC profiles color management.