Why can't I get curly quotes in PL?

[Vivi_Ram]

Hello:

I've noticed a curious problem. I want to type and get curly quotes, both single and double. Instead I just get a straight quote mark. Is there some setting I need to toggle on/off? Thanks!

I've also noticed that PL does not load certain fonts correctly. They are rendered correctly first, but let's say you click out of the text box, change font, and return to the old font, the font is rendered incorrectly. A good example is my favourite: Libre Caslon: https://fontesk.com/libre-caslon-condensed-typeface/... It does not work properly in PL and does not render curly quotes. Curly quotes is not just with this font. It's a universal issue.

Libre Caslon-min.jpg

[shijan]

Seems some specific conflict between font (encoding?) and Windows system.
It is interesting that basic TTF version visible under name "Libre Caslon" and variable TTF version use "Libre Caslon Condensed"

In macOS there is no problem and font is visible in the list:

lc1.jpg

If i remove font form Fonts system folder, PhotoLine still show font in resent fonts list on top, but without preview and marked with red color:

lc2.jpg

In Windows 10 OS font name is visible in the list, but have no preview. Same time it don't marked in red color because PhotoLine detects it in Fonts folder:

Screen Shot 2024-11-11 at 7.28.53 PM.jpg

Libre Caslon font itself use a lot of unusual special characters, so guess Windows may not recognize one of them correctly:

Screen Shot 2024-11-11 at 7.55.46 PM.jpg

[Vivi_Ram]

Hi Shijan.

Thanks for the response!

It makes sense. But only partially. I can see other fonts that are rendered perfectly in other apps with no issue whatsoever. Even libre caslon is rendered perfectly.

Also, it still doesn't explain the lack of curly quote marks. Here's what I mean: https://cmosshoptalk.com/wp-content/upl ... ured-1.jpg - This is essential for proper DTP work. The bulk of what I do. Could you please fix this at the earliest possible?

I hope it does not require a major rewrite of code.

@martin: what do you think?

Thank you!

[JanH]

For me on Windows, entering curly quotes via Alt + 0145/0146/0147/0148/etc. works just fine. (Or alternatively the WIN + dot emoji picker, too, even if for some strange reason any characters picked there take a detour via some little popup helper text input control, instead of being directly transferred to the text layer.)

[Vivi_Ram]

For me on Windows, entering curly quotes via Alt + 0145/0146/0147/0148/etc. works just fine. (Or alternatively the WIN + dot emoji picker, too, even if for some strange reason any characters picked there take a detour via some little popup helper text input control, instead of being directly transferred to the text layer.)

Hey Jan H, I am not technically very proficient. Do you mind showing me what you mean? I am not sure how to enter text via either method you've highlighted. Thank you very much for responding!

[Vivi_Ram]

For me on Windows, entering curly quotes via Alt + 0145/0146/0147/0148/etc. works just fine. (Or alternatively the WIN + dot emoji picker, too, even if for some strange reason any characters picked there take a detour via some little popup helper text input control, instead of being directly transferred to the text layer.)

Hey Jan H, I am not technically very proficient. Do you mind showing me what you mean? I am not sure how to enter text via either method you've highlighted. Thank you very much for responding!

Also, Like in most programs, I think curly quotes should just be the default, where as straight quotes should be the exception. Except in the case of software coding and very rudimentary DTP work with poor printers, I see no use straight quotes.

[Vivi_Ram]

Hey Jan H, I am not technically very proficient. Do you mind showing me what you mean? I am not sure how to enter text via either method you've highlighted. Thank you very much for responding!

Also, Like in most programs, I think curly quotes should just be the default, where as straight quotes should be the exception. Except in the case of software coding and very rudimentary DTP work with poor printers, I see no use straight quotes.

[Gerhard Huber]

If I need curly quotes, I use "Layout > Text > Edit Text Shortcuts" for this.
Here I defined the shortcuts I need. To use it, type the "Shortcut" and "Space":

[Gerhard Huber]

About Libre Caslon font.
This font seams to be not correct coded.
But you can easily solve this problem. Just select your text, change from "Regular/Condensed" to "Medium" and then back. This will fix the problem for all following text layers.
We will try to fix the bug in the font.
BTW. there are Libre Caslons fonts online, that don't have this bug.

[Vivi_Ram]

About Libre Caslon font.
This font seams to be not correct coded.
But you can easily solve this problem. Just select your text, change from "Regular/Condensed" to "Medium" and then back. This will fix the problem for all following text layers.
We will try to fix the bug in the font.
BTW. there are Libre Caslons fonts online, that don't have this bug.

I see!!!

I never thought about that. Thanks Gerhard!

I'll also set up shortcuts for curly quotes now. And get back here to report any issues.

[der_fotograf]

If you install professional fonts which feature an extended font set, you won't run into this problem. You can even type German »Umlauts« with it. Or Spanish extended characters.

[Herbert123]

@Vivi_Ram I am glad to see I am not the only one to experience this and more issues with type in PhotoLine. Personally I encounter quite a few issues with fonts nowadays in PhotoLine. Unfortunately...

Like you @Vivi_Ram, text suddenly changes into random characters. This happens all the time in PhotoLine. No such issues in any other design software.

Or I select a regular or other non-condensed type family member and suddenly that text changes to a condensed version.

Or the type family member list is populated with doubles, and it becomes unclear what the difference is between them. Or they don't seem to do anything.

Or I de-select bold or italics, and suddenly the font name turns red - indicating it does not exist. And I have to fix it by selecting another family member.

Last week I copied the AE ligature into a text box, and switched to a different font. It looked good. Then I exported the result and the AE ligature had switched to a different font. Even converting the text layer to a vector layer would not work: it switched to a different font. Yet it displayed correctly in PhotoLine. Sigh. I couldn't solve this, and had to resort to another design app to convert to vector and then import.

I believe various issues stem from the implementation of variable fonts in PhotoLine.

Also issues with selecting and inserting special characters. I mentioned this problem a while ago, and suggested solutions that are pretty common in other design apps, but those were rejected in favour of Text Shortcuts (which is just not a practical and enough of a controllable solution in my opinion). Currently I open a text file or website with special characters and copy and paste those in PhotoLine. For quotes and dashes a pretty terrible experience. I agree with you that curly quotes should be the default.

It's a primitive solution and hampers the type workflow. And no: text shortcuts aren't the solution. I should not be forced to manually insert proper quotes. The software should automatically insert the correct second quote character based on the first one.

Then there are other issues with typography in PhotoLine:

- Opentype features remain unexposed and inaccessible: small-caps, contextual alternates, ...

- no tracking (letter spacing) option: only kerning. Also something I mentioned a long long time ago. There is a reason why these are two separate things in typography. Kerning != Tracking

- baseline shift: shifting a word or a character up or down: when it hits the previous or next text line's baseline the entire line moves up (or down). That is entirely counter-intuitive, and I have never seen this behaviour before in any design software.
It means it is impossible to shift a character up or down to visually balance (for example) a dash without it affecting the entire line of text!!!
It sort-of will work when the text lines are in register with the baseline grid, but even then when the baseline shift goes beyond the leading max, it will shift the entire line down by one line.
Really infuriating.

- real lists / bullets aren't supported.

- justified with either last line centered and last line right aligned is missing.

- character and paragraph styles cannot be edited in a separate dialog.

- no optical margin alignment (I really miss this!). I fix this manually - just like in old times (30 years ago).

- coloured SVG fonts remain unsupported

Now, I understand PhotoLine is not a full-fledged DTP app. And some of these things that I mentioned (such as the optical margin alignment) may be too much of an ask, but the past year working with text and typography in PhotoLine has become a bit of a chore.

I hope we'll see some improvements in font handling.

[shijan]

I can also add old request (asked by multiple users) to use real characters edges instead of boxes and also change axis for text resize. This could be a user setting, so old documents could be opened and edited in old way if required https://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?t=6778 For mixed design work with small amounts of texts those text boxes are really problematic when need to align text to images precisely.

[Herbert123]

@shijan Absolutely. Working with text in PL can be improved in many ways.

[Vivi_Ram]

+1 to everything @Shijan & @Herbert_123 have said. I understand that PL is not a dedicated DTP tool in the same way Affinity Publisher is. Frankly, I would not want it to become one either. It will just be too much. However, here are a number of textual capabilities I'd say are basic, hygiene needs for even photo editing and vector tool.

1. Automatic, default curly quotes: We could have straights as optional, instead of other way around. My use case is: I write web, product description copy for clients, and mock them up. I also write lengthy reports. And not having default curly quotes is a workflow killer. I tried the shortcut method, and found it quite disruptive, having to remember one extra pair of shortcuts for this.

2. Kerning: This is so fundamental that real DTP is practically impossible without it, especially when setting title texts. And I set a lot of titles for web and print.

3. Baseline Shift: Again, a crucial basic feautre for optical adjustments as Herbert_123 points out.

4. Opentype features: I've struggled to find them. Where are they? Please point out. Without them, modern DTP is incomplete.

5. Justification with last line exception : Very important for long chunks of text.

6. Bullet list: Again a basic need... well, because, we need real lists.

Here's an example of the kind of documents I write and design. It is done for a real client, and since it is a public document, it's fine to share.

https://vrcopywriting.co.uk/index_html_ ... 7.2023.pdf

@Martin & @Gerhard: If you could get these into the program, it would make my life so much easier. And I don't even mind paying the entire licence fee again just to get them into the program.

As always, thanks!