Rationalizing and Simplifying the UI/UX of PL in 2025: A proposal

[Vivi_Ram]

No. That's not what modeless is.

Those adjustments are still related to the selected layer.

Non modal means, it is completely free of mode. Modeless.

It's hard to explain what I mean. I'll record screen and write with screenshots to explain.

I'm expecting PL to automatically create adjustments if I click an image and use an adjustment window on it.

In your screenshot you're manually creating layers. This is default behaviour. I'm suggesting an alternative workflow that reverses this.

This isn't the same as having just an adjustment list. That list is only related to one layer. The selected layer.

[shijan]

Or you can simply use this tiny icon. In this case large adjustment window will not be opened when you create new adjustment layer.

Screen Shot 2025-01-30 at 3.34.56 PM.jpg

[shijan]

No. That's not what modeless is.

Those adjustments are still related to the selected layer.

Non modal means, it is completely free of mode. Modeless.

It's hard to explain what I mean. I'll record screen and write with screenshots to explain.

I'm expecting PL to automatically create adjustments if I click an image and use an adjustment window on it.

In your screenshot you're manually creating layers. This is default behaviour. I'm suggesting an alternative workflow that reverses this.

This isn't the same as having just an adjustment list. That list is only related to one layer. The selected layer.

I really can't understand it. This needs video explanation.

[shijan]

This isn't the same as having just an adjustment list. That list is only related to one layer. The selected layer.

Drag adjustment layer inside image layer and it will affect only that layer

[Vivi_Ram]

@shijan: Try this and you'll see what I mean.

1. Create two vector shape of any colour.
2. Now apply a curves adjustment for one of the vector shapes.
3. Now try clicking on the second shape. You won't be able to. You'll hear a ding.


This is because you're still having the original adjustment window open.

Try the same steps with Layer effects. Apply layer effects to one shape. Now try clicking on another shape. You'll again be blocked out. Because the window has a mode. it prevents interaction with all other windows.

In what I am proposing, I'm saying that we should be able to have all windows simultaneously open. And click and apply effects and adjustments live without closing any of the windows.

A good way to understand this is by comparing it with colour editor. You'll be able to select multiple shapes and set colour simultaneously, right? Because that's my intention. I have selected multiple objects and now I am setting a colour. PL understands that this is the user intent.

You don't need to close the colour editor. It just sits on the screen. You can minimize it even. That's because it is a version of a non-modal window. This is exactly HOW ALL WINDOWS need to behave.

That is, the windows should no longer have a mode.

That's one part. Second part of the same situation. If I have levels and curves windows simultaneously open. And if I click on any of the vector shapes, they should automatically get an adjustment layer associated with them. WITHOUT ME MANUALLY CREATING ONE. Because that is the user intention. I don't mean to say that we should get rid of manual adjustment layer creation, but that automatic creation should exist simultaneously.

Don't know if I am making sense.

[Vivi_Ram]

This isn't the same as having just an adjustment list. That list is only related to one layer. The selected layer.

Drag adjustment layer inside image layer and it will affect only that layer

That's not it. We're misunderstanding each other. I'll record a video later today and write with screenshots to explain.

[shijan]

Sounds strange. How program could know which adjustment layer you want to apply?

@shijan: Try this and you'll see what I mean.

1. Create two vector shape of any colour.
2. Now apply a curves adjustment for one of the vector shapes.
3. Now try clicking on the second shape. You won't be able to. You'll hear a ding.

[shijan]

Multi adjustment stack example:

Screen Shot 2025-01-30 at 3.54.27 PM.jpg

[Vivi_Ram]

Or you can simply use this tiny icon. In this case large adjustment window will not be opened when you create new adjustment layer.

In all of these situations, it is the user manually acting. It is not PL understanding user intent. The best example I can think of is, colour editor. I've selected an object and set colour. Now, I've selected a second object and set colour. Did I need to close the colour editor in between the two steps? No. Likewise, adjustment windows should be allowed to exist on screen (like the colour editor) - if the user wants to. And every time I select an object, all the open adjustment windows will update with the data of that object. Just like the color editor shows the color of the selected object. If I make adjustments, adjustment layers are automatically created. I never have to close any adjustment window ever. They can exist simultaneously.

So, if an object both HSL and Curves adjustments, both windows can be simultaneously open. If I adjust curves, the corresponding changes are seen live on HSL. If I adjust HSL, curves show the changes live. I can then choose a different object, WITHOUT ever closing any window ever. Just like the colour editor. They just exist.

[Vivi_Ram]

Multi adjustment stack example:

EXACTLY this, except the adjustments would just exist on the window without a direct relation to layers. Wait for the video and you'll get what I mean.

[Vivi_Ram]

Sounds strange. How program could know which adjustment layer you want to apply?

@shijan: Try this and you'll see what I mean.

1. Create two vector shape of any colour.
2. Now apply a curves adjustment for one of the vector shapes.
3. Now try clicking on the second shape. You won't be able to. You'll hear a ding.

Try applying layer effects without closing layer FX windows.

[shijan]

There is no layer FX in PhotoLine. There are Layer Styles.
Are we talk about Layer Styles or about Adjustment Layers?

[Vivi_Ram]

Sounds strange. How program could know which adjustment layer you want to apply?

Any adjustment I make. This is because I've already opened all the adjustment windows simultaneously. For instance HSL, Curves, and Noise. All three are open. At once. I change curves. Curves is applied. Because that's my intent. If I didn't intend it, why would I do it?

Now, I changed HSL. HSL is applied. Again, intent.

Exactly like colour. How does PL know what colour I wish to apply? Because I've selected and changed colour in the editor.

Now, I apply noise. But oh wait, I don't like curves. I click on curves adjustment, and hit delete. The adjustment is deleted.

[Vivi_Ram]

There is no layer FX in PhotoLine. There are Layer Styles.
Are we talk about Layer Styles or about Adjustment Layers?

Layer styles. If you have affinity, you can compare. It's fully non modal in affinity.

[shijan]

Ok, i looked how Layer FX panel works in Affinity. It can always float on top and don't require to press "OK" button to apply changes or close panel. From some point of view it feels quick and easy, but also have own limitations. Let's say, i experiment with Layer Styles, add some styles and after some thinking i changed my mind:
In PhotoLine i just press "Cancel", close panel and so no Layer Styles applied as i required.
In Affinity i need to uncheck applied Layer FX one by one, which took way more clicks. It is strange that for this situation Affinity even don't have global "Reset" button for Layer FX.

Layer Styles panel is huge, so i can't see any practical reason always keep it opened in normal sized monitor. However it could be useful if keep it on secondary monitor or use ultra wide screen.
If make Adjustment Layers list with same logic, it will took too many space due dual row panel with Adjustments names checkboxes and Adjustments controls.
By the way, earlier i was thinking about idea to use panel instead of window for Layer Styles, but after some further thinking didn't send request because it was too many more important things and bugfixes to report.
I personally open Layer Styles panel above normal panels like this (thanks to improved and resizable Layer Styles window in latest versions):