Neue Testversion 18.90b1

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Gerhard Huber
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Neue Testversion 18.90b1

Post by Gerhard Huber »

Hallo,

es gibt wieder eine neue Testversion 18.90b1.

Windows:
www.pl32.com/beta/pl1890b1.zip


Mac OS X:
www.pl32.com/beta/plx1890b1.zip


Neues:
- gleicher Stand, wie 18.52
- Vom Scanner oder der Kamera: Kann jetzt vom Scanner Mehrseitendokumente erzeugen
- Aktionen: Manuelles Speichern speichert nun auch Gruppen
- Beschnittbreite: Funktion jetzt als Aktion aufzeichenbar
- Ebenenattribute, Drehung: Jetzt mit Kontextmenü "Rücksetzen"





Gerhard Huber [Computerinsel GmbH]
support@pl32.de - www.pl32.de
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photoken
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Req: Color to Transparency as layer "mask"

Post by photoken »

When the Color to Transparency function is applied, specifying "Create Adjustment Layer", the adjustment layer is created above the image layer. If the image layer does not have a transparent layer beneath it, the effect is not what is expected:
CTT orig.jpg
Instead, if the Color to Transparency adjustment layer were created as a "mask" layer for the image layer, the result would be as expected:
CTT proposed.jpg
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Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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photoken
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Re: Req: Color to Transparency as layer "mask"

Post by photoken »

The difference is even more pronounced when a layer containing information is below the original image. Here's the effect of the current behavior of the Color to Transparency adjustment layer:
CTT orig w bkgrnd.jpg
Here's the effect of the proposed request:
CTT proposed w bkgrnd.jpg
I'd argue that the requested adjustment layer placement as a "mask" gives the effect that is most expected.
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Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
bkh
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Re: Req: Color to Transparency as layer "mask"

Post by bkh »

photoken wrote:When the Color to Transparency function is applied, specifying "Create Adjustment Layer", the adjustment layer is created above the image layer.
If you have created the previous adjustment layer as a child layer (via the chain symbol), the next one will be a child layer by default, if it was an ordinary adjustment layer, the next one will be ordinary as well.
photoken wrote:If the image layer does not have a transparent layer beneath it, the effect is not what is expected:
Indeed. I would have expected it to create transparency in the final image (regardless of whether the final image had transparency before – just like Colour Filter and Clipping Layers). Remember, an adjustment layer on the layer stack is supposed to work on the combined image below it, not just on the image layer below it. If you want to apply it to a single layer, just use it as a child layer (or create an isolated group).

Cheers

Burkhard.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b1

Post by bkh »

There's another small bug in "Color to Transparency", namely in the Colour Picker:

If I open the panel with the preview section open, then the Colour Picker icon is highlighted, but it isn't active (and the highlighting disappears if I move the cursor on the icon).

EDIT: just noticed that this also happens in the Curves panel (and probably others as well).

Btw., it would be great if the cursor changed to a colour picker in the document window as well if the picker is active.

Cheers

Burkhard.
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photoken
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Re: Req: Color to Transparency as layer "mask"

Post by photoken »

bkh wrote:Remember, an adjustment layer on the layer stack is supposed to work on the combined image below it, not just on the image layer below it. If you want to apply it to a single layer, just use it as a child layer (or create an isolated group).
True, but I'm arguing that the Color to Transparency (as an adjustment layer) is a special case and ought to be created as a child layer of the image layer:
  • I can't think of a scenario where or how Color to Transparency would be wanted to be applied to the combined layer stack below it.
  • You are absolutely correct about the expectation of achieving transparency.
  • New users will be utterly lost -- they'll never think of dragging the CtT adjustment layer down to become a child layer.
P.S., Thanks for correcting my use of "mask layer" -- for some reason, I just could not think of "child layer".... :(
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
JulianZI
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b1

Post by JulianZI »

Hallo,

- Wenn man eine Ebenenmaske erstellt wird diese sofort gesperrt (blaue Anfasser) - man kann dies wieder abschalten, ich empfinde es aber als etwas verwirrend.

- Drag&Drop könnte optional eine Platzhaler eben erstellen (Drag mit rechter Maustaste?)

- Es gibt noch keine einfache Möglichkeit für Platzhalter einen Beschnitt zu erstellen. Ich hatte mal eine Aktion gepostet, die macht dies für eine Ebene.
Nachteil: Man muss diese Aktion erstmal finden, installieren und ausführen. Wünschenswert wäre es, für alle ausgewählten Platzhalter einen Beschnitt über das Menü anlagen zu können. (Ohne die Möglichkeit den Inhalt der Platzhalter zu beschneiden und zu zoomen ist Ihr Nutzwert stark eingeschränkt - nur mit Beschnitt Ebene hat man diese Möglichkeiten).

Grüsse,

Julian
bkh
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Re: Req: Color to Transparency as layer "mask"

Post by bkh »

photoken wrote: True, but I'm arguing that the Color to Transparency (as an adjustment layer) is a special case and ought to be created as a child layer of the image layer:
OK, got your point now – you would just like to change the default to create a child layer. Maybe that would be a good default for any adjustment layer (especially since adjustment layers are created to cover just the underlying layer, so that, in some sense, they only work on the layer below) – I'd much prefer a consistent behaviour for all adjustment layers. Indeed, you'd probably only want to create a child layer if the current layer isn't an adjustment layer or a layer mask (or some such rule).

As far as I remember, there was a technical reason for PL's current behaviour (which is to be either in "create normal adjustment mode" or "create child layers" mode) – before that, a newly created adjustment layer always was a normal layer, and you had to click the "chain" button to make it a child layer.

Cheers

Burkhard.
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Re: Req: Color to Transparency as layer "mask"

Post by Andreas87 »

bkh wrote:...(especially since adjustment layers are created to cover just the underlying layer, ...
I think you mean "layers". The default behaviour (use the characteristics of the last usage) of adjustment layers should not be changed so that everyone can work in that way how he likes to work.

@photoken:
I understand the usage slightly different. You can use "Color to Transparency" e.g. as "Show and Clip" Layer Mask. That means you create the "Color to Transparency" adjustment layer as you did already, "transform it to previous" (see Layer Mask) and then change from a "Clip" to a "Show and Clip" type.

The result is the same as using a 'Chain* directly but a little bit more complex to create. The point is, this adjustment layer needs a dedicated layer to add transparency to.
Andreas87
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b1

Post by Andreas87 »

Noch eine Frage zu "Color to Transparency":

Bzgl der Box links unten (keine Ahnung wie man sie nennt):
- Was zeigt die x-Achse?
- Warum kann man die Schieber nicht komplett zusammenschieben? Der Minimalabstand scheint 10% zu sein.
Martin Huber
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b1

Post by Martin Huber »

Andreas87 wrote:Noch eine Frage zu "Color to Transparency":

Bzgl der Box links unten (keine Ahnung wie man sie nennt):
- Was zeigt die x-Achse?
Die Deckungswerte im Bereich [0;1].
Andreas87 wrote:- Warum kann man die Schieber nicht komplett zusammenschieben? Der Minimalabstand scheint 10% zu sein.
Die Schieber komplett zusammenzuschieben ist - wie auch bei einem normalen Histogramm - sinnlos, weil man dadurch als Ergebnis einen einzelnen Wert bekommt. Wenn man das will, kann man das einfacher erreichen.
Überhaupt ist der ganze Sinn von "Farbe nach Transparenz" einen weichen Alphakanal zu erzeugen. Das ist bei einem 10%igen Mindestabstand schon nicht mehr gegeben, daher halte ich das für einen sinnvollen Mindestabstand.

Martin
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b1

Post by Martin Huber »

bkh wrote:There's another small bug in "Color to Transparency", namely in the Colour Picker:

If I open the panel with the preview section open, then the Colour Picker icon is highlighted, but it isn't active (and the highlighting disappears if I move the cursor on the icon).

EDIT: just noticed that this also happens in the Curves panel (and probably others as well).
I can't reproduce that. How do you open the panels (via menu/shortcut/...)?
bkh wrote:Btw., it would be great if the cursor changed to a colour picker in the document window as well if the picker is active.
Well, it shows a color picker cursor here, but only after moving the mouse. I will examine that.

Martin
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Re: Req: Color to Transparency as layer "mask"

Post by bkh »

Andreas87 wrote:
bkh wrote:...(especially since adjustment layers are created to cover just the underlying layer, ...
I think you mean "layers".
No, the size of an adjustment layer is the size of the layer above which it was created (i.e., the layer that was active when you created it), not the (combined) size of the underlying layers.

Cheers

Burkhard.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b1

Post by bkh »

Martin Huber wrote:
bkh wrote:If I open the panel with the preview section open, then the Colour Picker icon is highlighted, but it isn't active (and the highlighting disappears if I move the cursor on the icon).

EDIT: just noticed that this also happens in the Curves panel (and probably others as well).
I can't reproduce that. How do you open the panels (via menu/shortcut/...)?
Ah, this only happens if I open the panel via the adjustment layer icon in the Layer panel – also with a fresh PL (empty PhotoLine Settings folder). "New Adjustment layer" from the main menu works as expected.
Martin Huber wrote:
bkh wrote:Btw., it would be great if the cursor changed to a colour picker in the document window as well if the picker is active.
Well, it shows a color picker cursor here, but only after moving the mouse. I will examine that.
Cursors seem to work as expected when using a new PhotoLineSettings folder – so probably there's something messed up in my preferences. I'll see if I can spot something here.

Cheers

Burkhard.
Last edited by bkh on Wed 24 Sep 2014 16:16, edited 1 time in total.
Martin Huber
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b1

Post by Martin Huber »

bkh wrote:Ah, this only happens if I open the panel via the adjustment layer icon in the Layer panel – also with a fresh PL (empty PhotoLine Settings folder). "New Adjustment layer" from the main menu works as expected.
I will check that.

Martin