Neue Testversion 18.90b9

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photoken
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by photoken »

Eurgail wrote:But he shortest way is to use the new "vector outline" option in the newer betas (layout -> vector -> vector outline). :-)
Great! I like that because then there are fewer anchor points to deal with. Thanks!
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by Hoogo »

Wenn man die Hintergrundebene mit dem Lasso beschneidet, dann verliert die Vordergrundebene ihren Ebenenmodus und wird wieder normal.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by Herbert123 »

I have a request in regards to the channels pane. It would be very useful if we could paint directly in the channels with greyscale values, and apply filters directly on the channels themselves by selecting them.

I would expect that when I paint with black in the selected RED channel, that I would get pure red. But that is not what happens: instead of red, a light blue/cyan appears. When I paint with black in the green channel, I get a pink/magenta, and with black in the Blue channel a slight yellow.

Very odd behaviour indeed. When I switch the background to CMYK, I expect to be able to paint with greyscale values in the channels themselves, but that does not work at all, unfortunately. Nor for Lab mode. Just black appears in a layer when I try to paint with black in one of those channels.

Even stranger, when I turn on G and B, and draw with black, the result is RED??? That makes no sense to me.

Basically, I expect to be able to draw with black/a greyscale value to add information to a specific channels, and with white to remove it. Now that we have blend modes available to us while painting, it would open up new possibilities. But the current channel behaviour seems either broken, or very counter-intuitive.

I do not comprehend Photoline's logic in this regard.
Am I missing something here? I also tried to activate and turn off the channels in painting tools, but with the same result.

And of course, spot channel support would be appreciated as well ;-)

*edit* I figured it out: by combining the RGB channels in the drawing tools, such as R and B, you get GREEN. With B and G it becomes RED.
Perhaps it is just me, but it seems extremely awkward. Why not allow us to just use greyscale values to edit the channels information? That is the standard nowadays.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by Martin Huber »

Hoogo wrote:Wenn man die Hintergrundebene mit dem Lasso beschneidet, dann verliert die Vordergrundebene ihren Ebenenmodus und wird wieder normal.
Ich werde das reparieren.

Martin
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by maxwell »

Spot channels are already supported in the actual beta and they work great. Also the duplex mode can be realized. In contrast to PS or Corel, in PL these features are realized based on layers and not on channels. In Acrobat the spot channels built by PL are shown as expected. Give these new features a try and you will enjoy them.

With respect to your questions concerning channels. Also the channels should be manipulated based on layers. All options of PS are possible with PL. Working with layers also makes it possible to conduct image and channel arithmetic. Also the options of the blend modes subtract and add can be performed.

Josef
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by Martin Huber »

Herbert123 wrote:I have a request in regards to the channels pane. It would be very useful if we could paint directly in the channels with greyscale values, and apply filters directly on the channels themselves by selecting them.
You can do that with most "conventional" filters.
Herbert123 wrote:I would expect that when I paint with black in the selected RED channel, that I would get pure red.
Why do you expect that? Writing black to the red channel removes red from the image, and only green and blue remains.
Herbert123 wrote:But that is not what happens: instead of red, a light blue/cyan appears. When I paint with black in the green channel, I get a pink/magenta, and with black in the Blue channel a slight yellow.

Very odd behaviour indeed. When I switch the background to CMYK, I expect to be able to paint with greyscale values in the channels themselves, but that does not work at all, unfortunately. Nor for Lab mode. Just black appears in a layer when I try to paint with black in one of those channels.

Even stranger, when I turn on G and B, and draw with black, the result is RED??? That makes no sense to me.

Basically, I expect to be able to draw with black/a greyscale value to add information to a specific channels, and with white to remove it. Now that we have blend modes available to us while painting, it would open up new possibilities. But the current channel behaviour seems either broken, or very counter-intuitive.

I do not comprehend Photoline's logic in this regard.
That's not PhotoLine's logic. That's just the way editing a single channel affects the resulting image. I just tried my old PS and the result was the same.
Herbert123 wrote:And of course, spot channel support would be appreciated as well ;-)
What is missing?
Herbert123 wrote:*edit* I figured it out: by combining the RGB channels in the drawing tools, such as R and B, you get GREEN. With B and G it becomes RED.
Perhaps it is just me, but it seems extremely awkward.
Perhaps you should just try painting with white.
Herbert123 wrote:Why not allow us to just use greyscale values to edit the channels information? That is the standard nowadays.
That is exactly what's happening.

Martin
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Req: Channels for the Brighter and Darker tools

Post by photoken »

While working on Experiment 03 (Removing Lens Flares) it occurred to me that having the same Channels options for the Brighter and Darker tools as in the Painting tool would be very helpful. By selectively darkening areas of flare in the individual channels, correcting lens flares should become much easier.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by Hoogo »

Herbert123 wrote:I have a request in regards to the channels pane. It would be very useful if we could paint directly in the channels with greyscale values, and apply filters directly on the channels themselves by selecting them.
*edit* I figured it out: by combining the RGB channels in the drawing tools, such as R and B, you get GREEN. With B and G it becomes RED.
Perhaps it is just me, but it seems extremely awkward. Why not allow us to just use greyscale values to edit the channels information? That is the standard nowadays.
Works totally fine for me. But look carefully, and you will see that light blue color beneath the red channel in the RED picture. The eye shows what channels are visible, the background tells what channels get changed.
And I totally agree that you get cyan if you paint black to red. That leaves green and blue, and these add to cyan.
Maybe you just confuse white and black here?
Herbert123 wrote:And of course, spot channel support would be appreciated as well ;-)
What is that?
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Re: Req: Channels for the Brighter and Darker tools

Post by Hoogo »

photoken wrote:While working on Experiment 03 (Removing Lens Flares) it occurred to me that having the same Channels options for the Brighter and Darker tools as in the Painting tool would be very helpful. By selectively darkening areas of flare in the individual channels, correcting lens flares should become much easier.
I would not do that directly to the graphics.
I would add a medium gray layer and set its layer mode to overlay.
Then you can paint with black, white, any tool and filter without destroying the original picture. It will take some attempts until you have a final version.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by bkh »

Herbert123 wrote:Perhaps it is just me, but it seems extremely awkward. Why not allow us to just use greyscale values to edit the channels information? That is the standard nowadays.
Works here, it seems. Choose white and switch on the R channel in the tool settings, and you'll get red (or add red, depending on the values of the other channels). Choose black, and you'll get less red.

For me, the only question is whether selecting/deselecting a channel in the Channels panel should directly affect the setting in the layer tools. But this wouldn't work as expected when the document working space is different from the colour space of the layer, or if an adjustment layer is involved which doesn't work channel-wise.

Cheers

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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by Herbert123 »

Guys, I humbly apologize. It's really late here in Vancouver, and for some reason or other my brain and logic were twisted and turned in confusion when I was working on a channel move, and I confused 3d texture theory with colour channel theory. My bad. Painting in channels works as expected.

Sorry Martin for the confusion.

As for spot channels: currently we can add a vector layer and define a spot colour for that layer. But as far as I am aware, there is no option to create a bitmap based layer that serves as such?

And we cannot create a hexachrome, or a duotone, or tritone. Or a 8 colour dark/light print. At least, I do not think we can? It is one last reason why I sometimes have to resort to Photoshop.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by Hoogo »

Herbert123 wrote:As for spot channels: currently we can add a vector layer and define a spot colour for that layer. But as far as I am aware, there is no option to create a bitmap based layer that serves as such?
Where can I find that spot color option?
What if you add a layer mask to the vector?
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by Herbert123 »

Hoogo wrote:
Herbert123 wrote:As for spot channels: currently we can add a vector layer and define a spot colour for that layer. But as far as I am aware, there is no option to create a bitmap based layer that serves as such?
Where can I find that spot color option?
What if you add a layer mask to the vector?
Add a document colour, and check "Spot". Then create a vector layer, and apply the colour.

And YES! you are right! Adding a layer mask allows us to use a bitmap to adjust the spot colour, and thereby have full control.
What's more, we can set the Overprint to "fill", and have that spot colour overprint, so varnishes and metallics should be possible now as well. I will export a pdf, and inspect the result.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by Hoogo »

Herbert123 wrote:Add a document colour, and check "Spot". Then create a vector layer, and apply the colour.
Seems I really missed something here :)
What is a document color?
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by Martin Huber »

Herbert123 wrote:Add a document colour, and check "Spot". Then create a vector layer, and apply the colour.

And YES! you are right! Adding a layer mask allows us to use a bitmap to adjust the spot colour, and thereby have full control.
What's more, we can set the Overprint to "fill", and have that spot colour overprint, so varnishes and metallics should be possible now as well. I will export a pdf, and inspect the result.
You will lose this spot color, if you are exporting as PDF/X1a or PDF/X3 because both cannot export transparency.

The intended way is using the layer attributes: If the active layer is a 8-bit gray image, you can assign a (spot) color to the image.

Martin