Neue Testversion 18.90b9

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Martin Huber
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by Martin Huber »

Hoogo wrote:
Herbert123 wrote:Add a document colour, and check "Spot". Then create a vector layer, and apply the colour.
Seems I really missed something here :)
What is a document color?
A document color is a color of the document color list. Similar to text styles the document color list is attached to a document. Changing a document color will change all places in the document that use this color.

Martin
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by maxwell »

Herbert123 wrote:As for spot channels: currently we can add a vector layer and define a spot colour for that layer. But as far as I am aware, there is no option to create a bitmap based layer that serves as such?

And we cannot create a hexachrome, or a duotone, or tritone. Or a 8 colour dark/light print. At least, I do not think we can? It is one last reason why I sometimes have to resort to Photoshop.
You can assign a spot color to a grayscale image, if the document (attributes, document mode) has a CMYK profile. The grayscale layer should then have a color option to which you have to assign the spot color (don't forget transparency). Please check by overprint the fill option. The grayscale image corresponds to the channel mask in PS. Assigning one black spot color to the first grayscale image, copy the grayscale image and assign a second spot color to the second grayscale image. What you get is an image in duplex mode.

Josef
Last edited by maxwell on Mon 09 Feb 2015 17:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by ellhel »

Hallo,

ich frag jetzt mal ganz dumm: Wo finde ich die "Dokument-Farbliste".

Noch eine Frage, mir ist das vorher noch nie aufgefallen, aber es gibt überhaupt kein Kontext-Menü im Kanäle-Dialog, auch nicht über dem "Augen-Symbol".
Da hätte ich wenigstens die Befehle wie im Ebenen-Dialog erwartet (Natürlich nur mit Optionen die da auch Sinn machen).
Ist das Absicht...?

Liebe Grüße
Helmut
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by maxwell »

ellhel wrote:Hallo,

ich frag jetzt mal ganz dumm: Wo finde ich die "Dokument-Farbliste".
unter Ansicht -> Listen. Kanalarbeiten führt man unter PL am Besten mit Ebenen durch. Im Buch von Katrin Eismann werden viele Kanalarbeiten auch bei PS mit Ebenen durchgeführt. Unter PS sind viele Dinge aus Uralt-Versionen erhalten geblieben wie z.B. Kanal- und Bildberechnungen, die genau so gut mit Ebenen deurchgeführt werden können. Dessen ist man sich auch bei Adobe bewusst, wie Interviews mit den Entwicklern belegen. Für mich macht deswegen ein zusätzlicher Optionendialog im Kanäle-Dialog nicht viel Sinn.

Grüße

Josef
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by ellhel »

unter Ansicht -> Listen.
tja....da hab ich nicht nachgeschaut (warum auch immer)........... :oops:

Danke
Helmut
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by Herbert123 »

Hoogo wrote:
Herbert123 wrote:Add a document colour, and check "Spot". Then create a vector layer, and apply the colour.
Seems I really missed something here :)
What is a document color?
View-->Lists-->Document Color List

A document colour is a colour known as a "swatch" in Illustrator and Freehand: when applied to different vector objects, changing that document colour (swatch) will change the colour of all vector objects that make use of that swatch. It is a colour style.

PL, like other applications, also allows for tints based on a swatch colour.

The name "Document Color" in English is a bit unfortunate: generally they are known as "swatches" in design applications. Changing the name to "Swatch" would also be less confusing when both the "Documents" and "Document" ("Document Color" is shortened to "Document") panels are open. And users accustomed to "industry standard" applications would be less confused as well.
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Re: Req: Channels for the Brighter and Darker tools

Post by photoken »

Hoogo wrote:
photoken wrote:While working on Experiment 03 (Removing Lens Flares) it occurred to me that having the same Channels options for the Brighter and Darker tools as in the Painting tool would be very helpful. By selectively darkening areas of flare in the individual channels, correcting lens flares should become much easier.
I would not do that directly to the graphics.
I would add a medium gray layer and set its layer mode to overlay.
Then you can paint with black, white, any tool and filter without destroying the original picture. It will take some attempts until you have a final version.
The problem with that method is that the flares are multi-coloured, even within the same flare, which requires different amounts of darkening to each channel. Darkening all RGB channels at the same time leaves the unwanted flare colour -- that unwanted flare colour is just darker. By applying the Darker tool to individual channels, the unwanted colour can be corrected.

In this case, I don't mind altering the original picture -- I'm working on a copy of the picture, anyway.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by Hoogo »

maxwell wrote:You can assign a spot color to a grayscale image, if the document (attributes, document mode) has a CMYK profile. The grayscale layer should then have a color option to which you have to assign the spot color (don't forget transparency)...
Ich erinnere mich, hab ich damals schon bei der Einführung ewig gesucht. Hat aber glaub ich nichts mit CMYK zu tun, klappt bei mir auch einfach so.
maxwell wrote:unter Ansicht -> Listen.
Das fand ich wirklich schwer zu finden... "Dokument" erscheint ja bereits als Reiter in den normalen Farbfeldern, aber es war leer und von dort aus nicht zu füllen. Ich finde, die Buttons Plus und Minus gehören dort auch hinein.
Herbert123 wrote:The name "Document Color" in English is a bit unfortunate: generally they are known as "swatches" in design applications. Changing the name to "Swatch" would also be less confusing when both the "Documents" and "Document" ("Document Color" is shortened to "Document") panels are open. And users accustomed to "industry standard" applications would be less confused as well.
That's a totally new topic to me, so I should better shut up here... but I can't :lol: Swatch was building watches in the 80's. I'm fine with the name "document color", but if "swatch" is kind of standard, then I better get used to it right from the start.
Herbert123 wrote:PL, like other applications, also allows for tints based on a swatch colour.
Can you explain? I was in the swatch list, added a new color, a tint, and derived it from another swatch color. It worked, but changing the other swatch colordid not change the one with added tint. I wonder if "harmony" could work like that, too?
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Re: Req: Channels for the Brighter and Darker tools

Post by Hoogo »

photoken wrote:
Hoogo wrote:I would not do that directly to the graphics.
I would add a medium gray layer and set its layer mode to overlay.
Then you can paint with black, white, any tool and filter without destroying the original picture. It will take some attempts until you have a final version.
The problem with that method is that the flares are multi-coloured, even within the same flare, which requires different amounts of darkening to each channel. Darkening all RGB channels at the same time leaves the unwanted flare colour -- that unwanted flare colour is just darker. By applying the Darker tool to individual channels, the unwanted colour can be corrected.
In this case, I don't mind altering the original picture -- I'm working on a copy of the picture, anyway.
It's not exclusive. You could work in channels on the gray layer, too (if it is RGB...).
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by maxwell »

Hallo Hoogo,

CMYK benötigst Du als Basis für Pdf/x(-1), d.h. wenn Du dein Dokument zur Druckerei bringst. Beim Preflight (Check ob Daten ok sind) wird die Konformität des Dokuments darauf hin überprüft. Color swatches respektive Farbmuster gibt es von Pantone, HKS und anderen. Sie werden Dir auch von einer guten Druckerei überlassen. Neben Abbildungen der Farben zusammen mit den CMYK Werten hat man da die Farben auch auf dem späteren Papier gedruckt und die direkte Kontrolle wie die Farbe später aussieht. Üblicherweise übernimmt man als Name der Schmuckfarbe den Namen des Herstellers. So weiß der Drucker, welche Farbe zu verwenden ist.

Grüße

Josef
Last edited by maxwell on Tue 10 Feb 2015 08:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by Herbert123 »

Btw, small bug in relation to tints:
- create a base spot colour swatch
- then create a new tint, and select the previous spot colour as the base colour.

The tints fail to update automatically. The use has to click on one of the tints to update the tints preview.

Also, existing tints that are based on an original base spot colour do not update when the original base spot colour is changed. This may lead to unintended additional spot colours.

And could we please have an option to add all the tints to the swatches in one go with a click on a button? Currently the user is forced to add one at a time, which is a painstakingly slow process, and prone to errors.

One more thing: currently it is not possible to drag colours to the document colors pane, or even to copy and paste existing colours? Would be great if those basic functions would be added as well.
Last edited by Herbert123 on Tue 10 Feb 2015 02:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Req: Channels for the Brighter and Darker tools

Post by photoken »

Hoogo wrote:
photoken wrote:
Hoogo wrote:I would not do that directly to the graphics.
I would add a medium gray layer and set its layer mode to overlay.
Then you can paint with black, white, any tool and filter without destroying the original picture. It will take some attempts until you have a final version.
The problem with that method is that the flares are multi-coloured, even within the same flare, which requires different amounts of darkening to each channel. Darkening all RGB channels at the same time leaves the unwanted flare colour -- that unwanted flare colour is just darker. By applying the Darker tool to individual channels, the unwanted colour can be corrected.
In this case, I don't mind altering the original picture -- I'm working on a copy of the picture, anyway.
It's not exclusive. You could work in channels on the gray layer, too (if it is RGB...).
It still does not work too well for removing flares because painting does just that -- it applies the black or white colour uniformly over the underlying image. The Brighter and Darker tools work differently, and it's that difference in functionality that I'd like to be able to use directly on the individual channels.
Ken
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Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by Herbert123 »

I agree with Ken on this point: it would be handy to be able to do this.
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by Juan »

The variable width is amazing tool but I´m a little afraid that is way too hidden to be discovered easily which can lead to confusion specially for new users, said that I would like ask if is possible to bring it more to the surface and make it available on the canvas, please check this video and see how Inkscape has make it, if this is possible to add it in PL would be great.
Another advantage of this method is that the length representation of the stroke (vector) is real, not a virtual "representation" of the length of the vector.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5_otczLlp0

Cheers,
Juan
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Re: Neue Testversion 18.90b9

Post by maxwell »

Herbert123 wrote:I agree with Ken on this point: it would be handy to be able to do this.
To apply tools to individual channels, copy the channel into a layer (Tools -> Change Channels) via clipboard, mofify the channel and copy it back.