lasso question and saving selections

[Herbert123]

Suppose I have ten layers with content. Suppose I then create one rectangle lasso (selection). I'd like to crop a bunch of those layers with the same lasso (selection). Or invert the lasso and delete the rest of said layers.

When I crop the layer, the lasso disappears. I can't find an option to reload the previous selection, or have it stay. One option exists to convert a layer to a lasso, but when I try that, for some inexplicable reason the content of that layer is removed, and only a lasso remains. Of course, I could duplicate that layer before converting to a lasso, but that feels like a work-around.

So, "saved selections to the rescue", I thought. I use these all the time in Photoshop.

I tried finding an efficient method to save a lasso as a channel (like Photoshop), or save the lasso as a black and white layer in the layer stack: in the first case only a mask load and save function in the tools/mask menu exists, which is far too bothersome and clunky. In the second case "saving" a mask first as a layer mask, and moving it in the layer stack and hiding it does not really solve the problem either (clicking that greyscale layer un-hides the layer, and displays it).

In Photoshop one can save any selection (lasso) as a channel in the channels pane. I do not want to draw a comparison with PH, since Photoline does rely on a slightly different workflow - however, I can't see any way to save a lasso or mask I created to an "off-side" place in Photoline. This is the very reason Photoshop uses channels to save selections for later use.

And here comes the second part of my question: is there a quick method to load up the transparency of a layer as a lasso (selection), besides the long-winded "mask from alpha" menu option? In PH (sorry) I can simply ctrl-click on a layer to load its alpha as a selection (lasso). Or ctrl-click on the rgb combined channel in channels to load up a selection (lasso) based on the luminance of the image. Even better, ctrl-clicking a channel (including saved selections) loads up that channel as a selection (lasso) based on the greyscale values of that channel. Extremely handy, and a time-saver.

Sure, I could possibly attach a short-cut key to loading a lasso based on alpha transparency, but it's cumbersome (two or three steps involved) and it still would not allow me to combine several layers' alpha transparency quickly.

I really, *really* miss these quick and dirty option in Photoline. I wouldn't mind an alternative workflow, as long as it is just as fast and efficient. I miss the ctrl-click of layers most (including the option to hold down shift/alt to combine/subtract different selections based on several layers simultaneously). And having no (obvious) way to save lassos, or at least a function to retrieve the previously made lasso, is affecting my work in Photoline on a daily basis. It feels slow and cumbersome to me.

Any workflow tips here?

[bkh]

Just to be sure about terminology: in PL, masks and lassos are slightly different things – a mask may contain partial selection (feathered edges etc.), while the lasso is a pure vector shape (corresponding to where the mask reaches 50 % selection). A selection in PL is the part of an image layer selected by a mask. As far as I remember, terminology in PS is slightly different.

I tried finding an efficient method to save a lasso as a channel (like Photoshop), or save the lasso as a black and white layer in the layer stack: in the first case only a mask load and save function in the tools/mask menu exists, which is far too bothersome and clunky. In the second case "saving" a mask first as a layer mask, and moving it in the layer stack and hiding it does not really solve the problem either (clicking that greyscale layer un-hides the layer, and displays it).

I agree that PL could use a better way of storing masks for later use (and it's not the first time this topic comes up). Anyway, if I want to save a mask, then I convert it to a layer mask and just disable it (by shift-clicking on the scissors symbol). In that way, it doesn't un-hide when you select it, and you can always create a mask from it by using the mask menu at the bottom of the layer panel. Unfortunately, you cannot drag it to the top level layer list, though (as it will lose its status as a layer mask).

And here comes the second part of my question: is there a quick method to load up the transparency of a layer as a lasso (selection), besides the long-winded "mask from alpha" menu option? In PH (sorry) I can simply ctrl-click on a layer to load its alpha as a selection (lasso). Or ctrl-click on the rgb combined channel in channels to load up a selection (lasso) based on the luminance of the image. Even better, ctrl-clicking a channel (including saved selections) loads up that channel as a selection (lasso) based on the greyscale values of that channel. Extremely handy, and a time-saver.

In PL, you can click on the mask symbol in the lower left corner of the channels panel to create such a mask from the current channel. Unfortunately, you cannot add to/subtract from the current mask using modifier keys, and the alpha channel doesn't show up in the channel list, either.

If I need to combine several masks for clipping purposes, I tend to use layer masks in PL, rather than combining several masks (but then I usually prefer a non-destructive workflow anyway).

Cheers

Burkhard.

[Hoogo]

Hello Herbert,

when I want to crop a stack of layers, then I just press Ctrl+A after I cropped one of them. That selects the whole layer and works fine for rectangular selections. But most of the time I just do that to save some memory, decrease file size and hopefully to increase speed, and not to affect the result.
If you don't mind about memory, then it works fine for adjustment layers to put them together with their base layer into an encapsulated group, or to drag the layer in the layer list to the base layer and turn it into a child layer this way. That's quite the same as that PS function I don't know the english name for.
And then there's "protect underlying transparency" button at the top of the layer list between mode and the intensity. It can be handy for textures.
And finally I use "layout > image > bring to document size" quite often. Be it to enlarge a layer or to scrap everything outside the picture.

...One option exists to convert a layer to a lasso, but when I try that, for some inexplicable reason the content of that layer is removed, and only a lasso remains. Of course, I could duplicate that layer before converting to a lasso, but that feels like a work-around.

I guess "Create lasso from layer" would be a nice thing here.

I tried finding an efficient method to save a lasso as a channel (like Photoshop), or save the lasso as a black and white layer in the layer stack

I had the need to store selections when I started with PL, too. And funny enough, i did not move from Photoshop, but from Paintshop Pro 6, and I can't remember that PSP offered a solution for this. At that time I imagined a 3rd tab besides layers/channels for stored selections. But meanwhile, I don't really miss it anymore.

in the first case only a mask load and save function in the tools/mask menu exists, which is far too bothersome and clunky.

"Convert lasso to layer" from the context menu in the picture could help a little, when the selection has no smoothness or different grayscales.

In the second case "saving" a mask first as a layer mask, and moving it in the layer stack and hiding it does not really solve the problem either (clicking that greyscale layer un-hides the layer, and displays it).

When clicking on that eye-symbol in the layer list, you can hold shift or Ctrl, too. But I don't really know what I'm doing there, usually I need to click once with shift, once with CTRL and once with no key to get what I need. But you can right-click on that eye, too. The menu contains all options, too.

I wish there would be a cycle of visible/invisible/debug mode when clicking on that eye.

And here comes the second part of my question: is there a quick method to load up the transparency of a layer as a lasso (s9election), besides the long-winded "mask from alpha" menu option?

Afaik not...

...Or ctrl-click on the rgb combined channel in channels to load up a selection (lasso) based on the luminance of the image. Even better, ctrl-clicking a channel (including saved selections) loads up that channel as a selection (lasso) based on the greyscale values of that channel. Extremely handy, and a time-saver.

There's a button for that at the bottom of the channels tab.

...I wouldn't mind an alternative workflow, as long as it is just as fast and efficient...
Any workflow tips here?

What's the final effect you want to have in your picture? This might sound really strange, but I do not miss those store- or copy-functions for selections anymore. I tend to see "real-world"-layers. If there's a house in front of a sky, then I copy the picture, select the house and turn the selection into a layer mask. Or I just create the selection and use "Convert selection to layer" from the context menu, but this way I can't do many corrections to the mask afterwards. Finally I want to have my objects from background to foreground as single layers.

Now I can add different adjustments to fore- and background. If I need to stamp in the background, I add an empty layer between back- and foreground for that.

Sometimes I need to duplicate a layer mask and move the duplicate to a different layer, but usually creating "real world"-layers is all I need. Maybe you can tell more about the final effect you want to see?

[bkh]

(clicking that greyscale layer un-hides the layer, and displays it).

That's one of the things in PL which sometimes drives me crazy: I often have hidden layers, and even if you click on them by accident, they will show up. (As a workaround, I usually set the layer intensity to 0, but switching it on again needs a few more clicks, then.)

I wish there would be a cycle of visible/invisible/debug mode when clicking on that eye.

what's debug mode??? (And no, I wouldn't want a third mode there, as I often use the "eye" to do a before/after comparison.)

Cheers

Burkhard.

[Hoogo]

what's debug mode???

Just a very old idea, nothing that was implemented. Once I imagined a cycle of normal/off/debug for that eye. Current behavior is normal/off for normal layers and normal/(nearly) debug for layer-masks. For debug I imagined to draw the layer 100% normal on top of all others.

(And no, I wouldn't want a third mode there, as I often use the "eye" to do a before/after comparison.)

OK, me too.