move selection - reloaded

[erikals]

PL
ok, just adding a new video, this one shows the creation of a GUI, and why PhotoShop is faster than PhotoLine to solve this...

http://youtu.be/mz2I-bAxG4w

PL

[Herbert123]

I also mentioned this to the devs when I started out with Photoline: the selection process is quite cumbersome compared to other applications such as Photoshop and Illustrator. When I was working on game levels with hundreds of objects I at some point gave up selecting objects in the viewport, and used the layer panel (almost) exclusively - it was too much work to select the correct objects and groups of objects otherwise.

Of course, partly caused by the complexity of the file, but the process itself was just a bit too convoluted.

In both Photoshop and Illustrator the selection and move action is one action: click and drag. In Photoline we must first select the layer or layer group, and then we drag. In Photoshop a simple checkbox decides whether we want to select directly or by active layer in the layers only.

A secondary issue is that selecting a layer in Photoline's viewport often does not select what I want. I think a "select by layer or group" option would be very helpful (essential) here, no matter how deep the grouping actually is, because sometimes I prefer to select by layer group, and often by single layers, irrespective of the grouping involved.

Another solution in Photoshop is to add a right-mouse menu when you are in move (layer tool) mode that lists all the layers and layer groups hierarchically underneath the spot you right-mouse click. Very helpful.

But the main difference is indeed the direct "select and drag" instant action, which takes two steps (or more often) in Photoline. This causes a disconnect between the user experience and the GUI, even to the point of "is this broken?" (while it actually is not, but the direct expected feedback is compared to other software).

The "click to select first, then click again to move" paradigm ought to be "click to select and then drag to move". And there should be an option to select layer by content directly independent of the grouping involved. A right-mouse menu with a visual hierarchy of the layers with content below the mouse cursor would also be very helpful.

[erikals]

PL
Ditto that...!

-add "click-drag" option
-add "remove active handles" (iow, add option to use "move only", no stretch, no rotate, etc...)

PL

[Hoogo]

...think a "select by layer or group" option would be very helpful (essential) here, no matter how deep the grouping actually is, because sometimes I prefer to select by layer group, and often by single layers, irrespective of the grouping involved.

I have my problems with that, too. I think there's something like a double-click to enter a group during selection, but usually I end up with selecting the layer from the layer list.

And once there was a topic about respecting only visible pixels, not transparent pixels for selection. Personally I don't care, but this behaviour would fit nicely to Erical's video.

How would you select multiple layers in ID or PS(???)?

[Martin Huber]

You can deep-select in PhotoLine by holding Shift+Ctrl (Shift+Command on Mac OS).

Aside from that the current behavior is:
- If you are clicking inside the active layer, the layer behind the active layer will be selected. If there is no layer behind, the layer in front of it will be selected. If there is neither a layer behind nor in front, in document mode the layer will be deselected. In picture mode nothing happens.
- If you are clicking and dragging inside the bounds if the active layer, the active layer will be moved.
- If you are clicking outside the bounds of the active layer, the layer at that location will be selected.
- If you are clicking and dragging outside the active layer, rubber band selection will start.
- There is some additional handling of Shift (add/remove from selection) and Ctrl/Command (create layer).

I don't really mind changing that behavior, but a new behavior has to be consistent and uniquely defined. And it has to be acceptable for most users.

Martin

[Herbert123]

You can deep-select in PhotoLine by holding Shift+Ctrl (Shift+Command on Mac OS).

Aside from that the current behavior is:
- If you are clicking inside the active layer, the layer behind the active layer will be selected. If there is no layer behind, the layer in front of it will be selected. If there is neither a layer behind nor in front, in document mode the layer will be deselected. In picture mode nothing happens.
- If you are clicking and dragging inside the bounds if the active layer, the active layer will be moved.
- If you are clicking outside the bounds of the active layer, the layer at that location will be selected.
- If you are clicking and dragging outside the active layer, rubber band selection will start.
- There is some additional handling of Shift (add/remove from selection) and Ctrl/Command (create layer).

I don't really mind changing that behavior, but a new behavior has to be consistent and uniquely defined. And it has to be acceptable for most users.

Martin

When thinking about the overall workflow most users would probably expect to select the object they click - not the layer group. I suppose Adobe has done a lot of research in this regard, and that is why the move tool deep-selects by default. This selecting behaviour is also the default one in any other layer-based application I have used so far (quite a lot of them, actually).

Therefore, I feel the default should be deep-selecting, rather than group selecting.

As for select & drag in one action: this seems to be the default in most applications as well.

The simple solution would be to offer two simple options in the layer tool options like this:

Untitled.jpg

Another possible location for these two could be the overall preferences. However, I think these options would be changed quite a lot depending on the project you would work on., so the layer tool options seem a more prudent location.

The behaviour for selection would remain identical to how it works currently, and choosing one of the select options (layer or group) when pressing <shift>+<ctrl> would turn the selection behaviour in the opposite one. So when layer is set as the default selection behaviour, holding down those keys would switch to group selection, and vice versa.

The select & drag option would allow users to switch to a more direct interaction mode which would make it possible to just click and drag in one go.

This would make everyone happy, I feel, and accommodate all workflow preferences.

[erikals]

PL
a very good suggestion,

in addition i'd like to disable the stretch / pivot / rotate function on handles... (make it lock to move mode only)

[erikals]

PL

i'd like to disable the stretch / pivot / rotate function on handles... (make it lock to move mode only)

a second option would be to temporarily hold down the Alt button...

[greenmorpher]

PL
a very good suggestion,

in addition i'd like to disable the stretch / pivot / rotate function on handles... (make it lock to move mode only)

Yes.

Cheers, geoff

[evren]

I'm already using with CTRL + SHIFT and get used to. The nice part of current aproach is, when you're working with complicated workflows with too many layers, it gives you the comfort to not select out of group. If you want to go, just CTRL + SHIFT...

The demanded aproach is sounding something like "clicktrough" feature over transparent or empty areas until to match an object with opacity. And select it directly. Offered aproach will be useful in practical works. Click and go...
The current aproach have advantages for well organized workflows seperated with groups.

But to welcome al needs, I would like to offer something. Click and go sounds nice for practical works. But if PL's behaviour will be changed like that, please left CRTL + SHIFT command acting like;

Only click "selects the layer with opacity (anything) under it" directly.
CTRL + SHIFT click will limit the selection limited with current group.

Something like Herbert123 offered just except a need of interface edit

Just an offer. Can it make everybody happy?

[greenmorpher]

Where is the original post on this thread? It included a link to a PS tutorial, I think, which I could not look at at the time due to a very slow internet connection in the New Guinea Islands. I am visiting Australia at present and on a fast internet connection so would like to check that out. Can anyone give me the link, please, or point me to the original post?

Portuguese aunt

Cheers, geoff

[erikals]

greenmorpher - check post #1, should be a youtube link there.

as for this topic, just make it work somewhat similar to PhotoShop, as an alternative.

it is very needed... (as i design GUI)

- disable the stretch / pivot / rotate function on handles... (make it lock to move mode only, as an option)
- add this function > click down, select, drag layer, click up, deselect (just like PS, as an option)

[greenmorpher]

Thanks, erikals, I get what you mean.

Cheers, geoff