Experiment 02: Request for subject matter

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photoken
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Experiment 02: Request for subject matter

Beitrag von photoken »

Hi all,

The first "Experiment" (which examined making selections, masks, and extracting a subject) generated a lot of interest. It was exasperating at times, frustrating, hair-pulling and teeth-gnashing. In other words, great fun! :mrgreen:

So, in the interest of learning more about PL's tools and capabilities and practicing with features we might not have used that often, I thought we ought to have another Experiment.

The Hubers graciously enabled the polling feature of the forum's software and here's what I'm thinking about: How about a user-selected subject for the Experiment?

It would work like this:
  1. I'll start a discussion to solicit requests for the type of subject. The discussion will be titled
    "Experiment xx: Request for subject matter".
  2. Everyone is encouraged to post a simple reply to that discussion with the type of subject they want to work on, along with a link to an image that all participants can download and use.
  3. After about a week (or after 5 requests have been submitted), I'll create another discussion titled
    "Experiment xx: Vote for the subject matter"
    which will be a simple poll to collect the votes for the first five proposed subjects. (The polling feature allows at most 5 items.)
  4. After about a week of voting, the subject with the most votes will "officially" :wink: become a new discussion thread titled
    "Experiment xx: <subject>"
    where we can all participate in working on the image and sharing thoughts, complaints, insights, etc.
Anyone interested?
Zuletzt geändert von photoken am Sa 17 Jan 2015 10:06, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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photoken
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Re: Experiment 02: Request for subject matter

Beitrag von photoken »

I'll start it off with a request for
Removing Lens Flares
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lens_Flare.JPG
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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Hoogo
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Re: Experiment 02: Request for subject matter

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The flare is evil, but the background is nice for a repair, mostly of one color and tone.

First I had a look at the channels.
The pink bar cross the house a bit left was invisible in the green channel.
The blue channel did not show the green flare in the center.
So I decided to use a simple approach here, splitting the channels and using curves to recolor them.

I had an action called RGB-split here, I guess it travels with PL. It creates groups with curves and greyscale bitmaps for each channel.

The blue group could handle the green flare. I turned off all new groups but blue, added a layer mask to the blue group and filled it black.
Then I painted roughly on the green spot in the middle.
For adjusting the curves I used the adjustment layer panel. I switched from the layer list to the channel list, enabled one channel at a time and adjusted the corresponding curve just on view.
After that I enabled all channels again. Adjusting each channel for itself gets close, but there's always a color cast left. So I played with the curves again until the color did match.
Finally I improved the mask.

The action created the green group in mode "screen". I turned it to normal.
WIth that group I did just the same job for the pink bar.

The other flares are visible on all channels. Maybe the channel mixer can subtract one from another to create a layer without a flare, I will check that next.
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photoken
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Re: Experiment 02: Request for subject matter

Beitrag von photoken »

Hi Hoogo,
Interesting technique, but this discussion is just a preliminary one -- aimed at soliciting users' requests for problems to be worked on.... :)
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
Alan9940
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Re: Experiment 02: Request for subject matter

Beitrag von Alan9940 »

Hello Ken,

I like this idea! But, to be honest my major stumbling block with PL is still building good masks. At the moment, I can't think of any technique that I've used in PS that I haven't been able to replicate in PL; once I knew where a similar tool was available in PL and/or what it's called. And, as I've mentioned more than once I'm very pleased that PL gives me capability with things that I can't do or can't easily do in PS.

Going back to your Jen post and the subsequent challenge posted by Herbert123 (I believe), I have to admit that I didn't feel complete with that exercise. I learned a lot, but I don't remember anyone but me posting something related to Herbert's experiment and I had new problems with the BM tool that I didn't have when working on the Jen image. Why? Dunno. No response to my questions. Therefore, I simply gave up and figured I'd continue to use Topaz Remask whenever I needed to build a mask in PL.

But... I recently come across a PS tutorial by Lee Varis going over the advantages of using the "a" or "b" channels in LAB to build masks. I tried to duplicate the tutorial in PL, but wasn't very successful. But, to "fess up" I didn't have much time to work on it so, maybe, I could have figured more out given more time and effort.

Anyway, bottom line for me is that I'd like to become more efficient with the general image editing tasks I've performed for years in PS. For example,

1. The use of several techniques for building masks.

2. The use and considerations of the Brush Editor. IMO this is a very powerful panel with sliders that I don't really understand. For example, I've built my own very soft custom brush, but I've never been totally happy with the way the brush works. I have a feeling that the "Steps" slider is causing the jumpiness that I have, but I don't understand the exact correlation between the settings of this slider and performance of the brush.

3. General image repair. I've played around with the Stamp, Copy Brush, and Remove brush and have been reasonably successful with them (mostly the Remove brush), but, again, sometimes they do wonky things and I don't understand why. I, also, wouldn't want to face a real challenge in this area given my current skill level.

4. Dodging/burning. We've got the Brighter/Darker brushes...there many other techniques to doing this type of work. Is there a preferred method in PL? Again, I'm comfortable with simple dodging & burning, but what about more complicated techniques using blending modes, etc?

5. Filter brush. There are more than a dozen choices for Type of brush, but only a couple seem of any real value to the photographer working with PL. Is this tool targeted primarily to graphic artist types and other doing mostly vector type work? For the photographer, I could think of more useful things that I might wish to brush on an image.

That's just off the top of my head. Maybe none of this is what you are looking for, but all are areas that I'd like to learn more about. But, and no offense meant to anyone on these boards I really don't see the true value of your proposal without having, at least, one or two masters of PL participating on a regular basis.

Anyway, all this and 5 bucks will get ya a latte at Starbucks! :D

Best regards,
AlanH
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photoken
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Re: Experiment 02: Request for subject matter

Beitrag von photoken »

Hey Alan,
Good to hear from ya again!
Alan9940 hat geschrieben:That's just off the top of my head. Maybe none of this is what you are looking for, but all are areas that I'd like to learn more about.
All those areas of interest (including masks) are what I'm looking for, but it seems to me that it's difficult to run an Experiment that's focused on a specific tool (or two). Maybe I'm wrong about that. My hope is that an Experiment which is geared toward solving an image problem will evolve into an in-depth discussion of the various tools which can be used toward a solution for that image. Kind of like how the Jen Experiment evolved into a rigorous exploration of the Border Matting tool.... :)

In other words, if you can find an image that requires the exploration of one of those areas or tools that you're interested in, that's what I'm hoping for.
Alan9940 hat geschrieben:But, and no offense meant to anyone on these boards I really don't see the true value of your proposal without having, at least, one or two masters of PL participating on a regular basis.
Yeah, it is what it is. Without someone willing (and able) to teach the equivalent of a "Photoshop Master Class", we need to rely on each other for the journey.

P.S., I intentionally am not calling these things "Challenges" or "Competitions" for the very reason you mentioned -- I do not want any sort of intimidation regarding someone's skill level to prevent that person from participating. So, there's no voting for the "best" solution and no reward for the "best" solution. An "Experiment" should be just a place where various stuff can be tried, failures can be analyzed, and hopefully skills improved without any pressure. :D
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
Alan9940
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Re: Experiment 02: Request for subject matter

Beitrag von Alan9940 »

Hello Ken,

As always a pleasure conversing with you!

I guess I'll simply keep an eye on this thread and see what "problem images" are presented. You're right, I could certainly learn something about one or more tools depending on the experiment images proposed. For myself and my own images, this is probably going to sound a bit pompous but I tend to delete any image file I feel is problematic and/or didn't meet my expectations. Usually...I did something wrong! :) After 15 years of shooting digital and all downstream post-processing of the RAW file, it finally dawned on me that the old maxim of "garbage in garbage out" applies as much with digital as it did with film.

Best regards,
AlanH
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photoken
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Re: Experiment 02: Request for subject matter

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Alan9940 hat geschrieben:I guess I'll simply keep an eye on this thread and see what "problem images" are presented.
Awww, c'mon! :wink: Experiment 02 needs some more proposals to vote on.... :)
Alan9940 hat geschrieben:For myself and my own images, this is probably going to sound a bit pompous but I tend to delete any image file I feel is problematic and/or didn't meet my expectations.
Not pompous at all. In all honesty, I don't understand why some folks are proud that they have >100k images. :roll: When I was shooting film, the first thing I did when I got the slides back was to use my little Agfa Viewer to drastically cull the slides.
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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dutchman
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Re: Experiment 02: Request for subject matter

Beitrag von dutchman »

experiment2.jpg
Your Idea for experimenting on PL is great.
The first one I solved "not too bad".
I think that EVERYBODY has some pics on the PC/MAC that could be made better.

Now my contribution is this experiment.
All the things in the red circles must be removed.
The tricky thing is removing the people in front of the fence/railing.

I put my first try on it on the upper left corner.

The original DL-file:
www.textwerkstatt.de/fotos/DSCN5675.jpg

Regards
toni
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photoken
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Re: Experiment 02: Request for subject matter

Beitrag von photoken »

Hi toni,
Thanks for the submission! We'll probably start the vote for the subject matter at the end of the week.

Can I summarize your submission as "Remove Objects"?
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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dutchman
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Re: Experiment 02: Request for subject matter

Beitrag von dutchman »

Call it what you like.
Your suggestion is OK for me.
Looking forward.
Toni
bkh
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Re: Experiment 02: Request for subject matter

Beitrag von bkh »

photoken hat geschrieben:I'll start it off with a request for
Removing Lens Flares
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lens_Flare.JPG
Can we have a sample image which allows free publication (at least within the thread)? Maybe it makes sense to add this as a rule? I don't think that we want to have to worry about licensing issues in every post.

Cheers

Burkhard.
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photoken
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Re: Experiment 02: Request for subject matter

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bkh hat geschrieben:
photoken hat geschrieben:I'll start it off with a request for
Removing Lens Flares
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lens_Flare.JPG
Can we have a sample image which allows free publication (at least within the thread)? Maybe it makes sense to add this as a rule? I don't think that we want to have to worry about licensing issues in every post.
I don't think there are licensing issues -- since the image is only available by downloading from the originating Wikicommons site, the inclusion of all the attributes and licensing info is fulfilled for free use of the image.
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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Hoogo
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Re: Experiment 02: Request for subject matter

Beitrag von Hoogo »

Another topic:
Restoring the original colors of an old photographic picture.
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Herr Doktor, ich bin mir ganz sicher, ich habe Atom! /Doctor, doctor, I'm sure, I've got atoms!
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photoken
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Re: Experiment 02: Request for subject matter

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Hoogo hat geschrieben:Another topic:
Restoring the original colors of an old photographic picture.
Sounds great. Got a link to a photo?
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.