Experiment 03 -- Remove Lens Flares

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Hoogo
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Re: Experiment 03 -- Remove Lens Flares

Beitrag von Hoogo »

photoken hat geschrieben:My questions for the Photoshop users are: Do you use that "Image Arithmetic" function? Would that be a valuable feature for PL to have?
I'm not a PS user. Recently I had a very little discussion about splitting frequencies. There is the approach to do it by Gaussian blur and high pass filter, but you can also leave the high pass and get the high frequencies with an arithmetic function. That allows to exchange the gaussian blur with other blur filters, adaptive soften is very useful for retouch purposes. "Image Arithmetic" is not really necessary for that, but it's more complicated to get the same result with layer modes and curves.

Beside of that I remember some tutorials with arithmetics where the same or better result could have been achieved with curves or layers.
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Hoogo
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Re: Experiment 03 -- Remove Lens Flares

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Next try to get rid of that blue flare in the center.

I grabbed a patch from the far left of the woods. Not to really patch it into the picture, but to have a nice example for dark and light trees very near for comparison.
Next1.jpg
Originally I placed it in a way that I could use the receipt with difference to find the best curve, but I got no useful curve this way. AS I moved the points in the curve, some parts got brighter, others got darker, and I had no idea if I was moving into the right direction.

So I made it with my eyes only, but still channel after channel. I turned on only red, and only adjusted the red curve until the brightness of the patch and the flare did match to my eye. And then the same for green and blue. How could I ever get happy without a tool to look at the channels. :D
The result was fine, you can hardly see a difference in color between patch and flare
Next2.jpg
Now it's a good moment to turn of the patch and mask the resulting curve.
But without the patch you can see more easily that the flare was not completely blue, but it was hiding another flare at a slightly different position, so on the lower side the repaired flare is too greenish.
Next3.jpg
This surely can be repaired with the same method, but that could mean to create dozens of different patches, and I don't really have a lot of patience...
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Herbert123
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Re: Experiment 03 -- Remove Lens Flares

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photoken hat geschrieben: This brings up a point that I've long been curious about: One of the obvious features of Photoshop that is missing in PL is "Image Arithmetic", where images, layers, etc., can be combined in various ways. My questions for the Photoshop users are: Do you use that "Image Arithmetic" function? Would that be a valuable feature for PL to have?
Yes, this is one of two features I sometimes miss in Photoline. That and the "Apply image" command. Mainly because Photoline's channel's panel is so limited, and the channel operations are quite hampered as well.

Which brings us to one of the major features I really miss in Photoline: a more flexible Channels pane. We cannot manipulate channels easily, and it is impossible to create a spot colour, or save a selection as a channel. A tiff with one or more alpha channels may open with the alpha channel(s) forced into the layers.

This also makes it incredibly hard (or rather impossible) to create di- or tri-tones. Anyone wants to do a 6C Hexachrome prep job? Or do a 8c dark/light photo? Or designate a channel for varnish or a metallic coating for print. All impossible in Photoline, unfortunately.

Also very difficult: to create an alpha channel tiff for game work, or 3d work. It is a major caveat in Photoline, and the only reason why I have to start up Photoshop CS6 a couple of times a year, or use other tools.

It is THE ONE area of Photoline's image editing that really is in need of improvement, and also prevents Photoline from being usable in a high end printing workflow.

(To be fair, there are some cool aspects of working with channels in PL, such as being able to draw in one channel only while working in a separate layer - something that is impossible to do in Photoshop. And switching the background layer to another image mode allows us to inspect the channels for each colour space. The cool thing is that when you switch from RGB to CMYK, and then back to RGB, the information is not lost as long as the layers above it are Lab or RGB!!! Very convenient indeed.! )

You know, I would be happy if the Hubers would only add two new checkboxes in the greyscale layer type properties called "Spot Channel" and "alpha channel", which would then be saved as such in compatible file types and PDFs. I am unsure how helpful that would be with Hexachrome jobs, though, or tri-tones.
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photoken
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Re: Experiment 03 -- Remove Lens Flares

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Herbert123 hat geschrieben:
photoken hat geschrieben: This brings up a point that I've long been curious about: One of the obvious features of Photoshop that is missing in PL is "Image Arithmetic", where images, layers, etc., can be combined in various ways. My questions for the Photoshop users are: Do you use that "Image Arithmetic" function? Would that be a valuable feature for PL to have?
Yes, this is one of two features I sometimes miss in Photoline. That and the "Apply image" command. Mainly because Photoline's channel's panel is so limited, and the channel operations are quite hampered as well.
Would you expand your answer a bit? What do you use the Image Arithmetic for? What is the "Apply Image" function?
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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Hoogo
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Re: Experiment 03 -- Remove Lens Flares

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Have another idea, not yet tested.
Using the channel mixer with subtract to get an artificial channel didn't work very well because of noise.
Curves give imho the best result, but this needs quite some masking as extra work added to adjusting the curves.
What about using the channel subtraction the other way round? Taking the worst channel, subtracting the best until the background goes away and the flare is most visible? I think the result could directly be used for the mask after some denoising and other adjustments were done.
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Herr Doktor, ich bin mir ganz sicher, ich habe Atom! /Doctor, doctor, I'm sure, I've got atoms!
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photoken
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Re: Experiment 03 -- Remove Lens Flares

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Hoogo hat geschrieben:Have another idea, not yet tested.
Using the channel mixer with subtract to get an artificial channel didn't work very well because of noise.
Curves give imho the best result, but this needs quite some masking as extra work added to adjusting the curves.
What about using the channel subtraction the other way round? Taking the worst channel, subtracting the best until the background goes away and the flare is most visible? I think the result could directly be used for the mask after some denoising and other adjustments were done.
You're absolutely right about the noise -- I noticed that happening with the other methods I used (the Darken tool, for example) also.

This is an intriguing idea, and I like the idea of using the result as a Luminance mask for further adjustments because it's very difficult to get a good mask by painting -- the lens flares have too many difficult soft edges.
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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dutchman
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Re: Experiment 03 -- Remove Lens Flares

Beitrag von dutchman »

Hi Ken,
do you remember...? The experiment...?
Can you show the endresults and start the new one, because I guess the experiment 03 is no longer part of the "community-challenge" so we can move on to the next (colorizing the old pic?)
Regards
toni
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photoken
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Re: Experiment 03 -- Remove Lens Flares

Beitrag von photoken »

dutchman hat geschrieben: Hi Ken,
do you remember...? The experiment...?
Hi Toni,
Oh, yes, I remember. :) I finished my work on this one using the tools available in PL 18.53, so I will wait until PL 19 is released to re-visit this Experiment with the tools in that new version.
dutchman hat geschrieben:Can you show the endresults and start the new one, because I guess the experiment 03 is no longer part of the "community-challenge" so we can move on to the next (colorizing the old pic?)
Sure. It seems this Experiment has run its course for the time being -- the results are what have been posted by the participants so far. Since there is no time limit on these Experiments, anyone is welcome to add their participation at any time.

I'll start the new Experiment later today!

I'll give it the number of "02" so there is not an empty gap in the numbers. (I screwed up and mis-typed the number of this Lens Flare Removal one.... :oops: )
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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dutchman
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Re: Experiment 03 -- Remove Lens Flares

Beitrag von dutchman »

dutchman hat geschrieben: I'll give it the number of "02" so there is not an empty gap in the numbers. (I screwed up and mis-typed the number of this Lens Flare Removal one.... :oops: )
OMG... crisis what crisis! :D
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photoken
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Re: Experiment 03 -- Remove Lens Flares

Beitrag von photoken »

dutchman hat geschrieben:
dutchman hat geschrieben: I'll give it the number of "02" so there is not an empty gap in the numbers. (I screwed up and mis-typed the number of this Lens Flare Removal one.... :oops: )
OMG... crisis what crisis! :D
Well...you know...precision is precision. :D
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.
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greenmorpher
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Re: Experiment 03 -- Remove Lens Flares

Beitrag von greenmorpher »

Hey, Ken, you're doing you numbering like Star Wars but you should allow more tme to pass before you come in with the prequel, heh, heh.

Cheers, Geoff