General issues and requests

[Nurz]

Hello, I'm using Windows and I discovered this great program with its unique features by accident in the DPReview forum. I've only played with it a little, and I'm impressed. But I'd quickly like to point out some things I find not working well and a number of them prohibit me from adapting entirely to Photoline.

Plugins and file format compatibility is a major deciding factor to me. It's a good thing that the former works great so far, though I haven't tested a few, like OnOne Perfect Effects. Now, the latter has a lot of quirks. Many layered TIF files (I tested a few with or without smart objects) open as a single merged layer, or as a merged background layer with empty layers on top. PSD files generally open better, but I prefer zip-compressed TIFs because of their smaller size. There's a weird behaviour with PSDs. The dialogue informs me of missing fonts, and prompts me to choose an alternative. But when it opens, the fonts appear unchanged - which is a good thing, because I want to open all files with the missing fonts as raster layers (titled after the font name for convenience), and be able to install them later or substitute them if I want. Neither AI (without PDF compatibility) or EPS load too.

The rest are not much of an issue but, it'd be really nice to have them. The ability to save changes back to RAW files, or convert them to lossless compressed DNG, import ATN actions, fast access to Layer Styles with the right-click menu, and tabbed layout for opened files.

And as for the GUI, while I can darken the interface colours, this results in having all those distracting white border lines around the tools and menus. I believe things will look much better by just removing them, keeping only the shades behind their titles. Also, the interface colour doesn't affect the image windows which still have that blue Windows theme. Lastly, I can't resize the Toolbox and the Tool Settings into a single row or column.

Photoline surely has potential, but even if I put most of my requests aside, as things stand in present, the broken compatibility with the above external files is a significant drawback. Which is a pity, really. I wish you would consider looking into these issues.

Cheers.

[photoken]

The ability to save changes back to RAW files,

That is not possible, by definition, because a RAW file is the unprocessed data from the camera's sensor. Saving edited images as a 16-bit TIFF is the way to save changes.

and tabbed layout for opened files.

Yes, I've also requested that, showing Photoshop Elements excellent tabbed document handling as an example.

[Nurz]

The ability to save changes back to RAW files,

That is not possible, by definition, because a RAW file is the unprocessed data from the camera's sensor. Saving edited images as a 16-bit TIFF is the way to save changes.

I agree, I didn't express myself correctly. I was thinking of how Photoshop loads and saves DNG format. Having Photoline save in a RAW-like format (like DNG) is what I'm talking about.

A correction about PSD. It actually loads fonts as chosen in the dialogue as a hidden layer, and adds the (visible) raster font below. I tried to replace the font, but I couldn't find a way to do it, so I suppose it can't be done - one has to retype the text. It also inserts a thumbnail on top showing how the image looks before opening, but even when deleting it and saving again as PSD, it appears anew. Maybe there's an option for this, I didn't look into it thoroughly. Also, the font replacement dialogue doesn't appear again when I re-open the file, which is not good. Of course, it would be much better if Photoline would just load the file and let you see the name of the font on the raster layer, so when you install it and reopen it, the font would show correctly. Two more things, styles do not load as intended, there are missing effects appearing as black. And when saving as PSD, a warning about losing the properties of text and child layers appears. Same happens with TIF (except the font dialogue - it just merges all layers, including fonts), with the addition of even when checking the box to save with layers, it opens the file flatten.

Finally, a copy/paste layer styles between layers would be nice.

[bkh]

Many layered TIF files (I tested a few with or without smart objects) open as a single merged layer, or as a merged background layer with empty layers on top.

TIFF files with PS layers and smart objects are an Adobe extension to the (documented) TIFF standard. Don't expect third party programs to support this.

Neither AI (without PDF compatibility) or EPS load too.

If I remember correctly, EPS files should open in PL if you have Ghostscript installed on your system.

And as for the GUI, while I can darken the interface colours, this results in having all those distracting white border lines around the tools and menus.

Not sure what you are referring to (I'm on OS X). Maybe it's the shadows of the icons (can be disabled under Preferences -> Display -> User Interface).

Cheers

Burkhard.

[photoken]

Neither AI (without PDF compatibility) or EPS load too.

If I remember correctly, EPS files should open in PL if you have Ghostscript installed on your system.

Even without using the Ghostscript option, AI and EPS files open just fine here.

[Nurz]

TIFF files with PS layers and smart objects are an Adobe extension to the (documented) TIFF standard. Don't expect third party programs to support this.

Since layered TIF created within PL are saved correctly, I thought it would work globally.

If I remember correctly, EPS files should open in PL if you have Ghostscript installed on your system.

Even without using the Ghostscript option, AI and EPS files open just fine here.

I have the latest version of Ghostscript installed, the same "Problem while loading" message appears.

Not sure what you are referring to (I'm on OS X). Maybe it's the shadows of the icons (can be disabled under Preferences -> Display -> User Interface).

I was referring to these horizontal and vertical lines around the titles and tools:

[photoken]

Having Photoline save in a RAW-like format (like DNG) is what I'm talking about.

OK, but how would that improve image editing? Even a RAW image processing program like RawTherapee can apply its non-RAW functions to TIFF (and even JPG) images.

HDRMerge is the only program I know of that has a reason for creating its DNG image (after doing an exposure merge).

Finally, a copy/paste layer styles between layers would be nice.

Use Layer...Management to access the copy/paste layer styles function.

[photoken]

I have the latest version of Ghostscript installed, the same "Problem while loading" message appears.

Then it would be best to attach one of the problem images here (or e-mail it to Support) so the developers can look at the problem.

[Nurz]

Having Photoline save in a RAW-like format (like DNG) is what I'm talking about.

OK, but how would that improve image editing? Even a RAW image processing program like RawTherapee can apply its non-RAW functions to TIFF (and even JPG) images.

When I take a photo with my DSLR, the file is lets say 20mb. When I open it in PS and save it as a clean DNG, without the JPG preview etc, size lowers to 15mb. I have a smaller file with no quality loss, and be able to handle it as RAW, again and again. It's not about image editing, rather having flexibility over the negative, and for archiving purposes.

Use Layer...Management to access the copy/paste layer styles function.

Thanks for the tip. I'm adding this as another right-click menu option request!

I have the latest version of Ghostscript installed, the same "Problem while loading" message appears.

Then it would be best to attach one of the problem images here (or e-mail it to Support) so the developers can look at the problem.

I just downloaded a random one from here:
http://www.logoeps.com
Sadly, the only program in Windows which opens EPS correctly and edits it, is Illustrator. I've tried Corel, Serif, Inkscape and dozens of other software. Either they had misplaced and deleted parts, or simply refused to open. It doesn't happen with all the files, but it happens.

[photoken]

It's not about image editing, rather having flexibility over the negative, and for archiving purposes.

Then you would best be served by using Adobe's free DNG converter, which can also process an entire directory in one swell foop.

Note: You can add that DNG Converter as an external program in PL. Just specify an image type of "None", and then you've got that capability a couple of mouse clicks away....

I just downloaded a random one from here:

Again, I have no problems directly opening one of those EPS files (the 7-Up logo) without even needing to use the GhostScript import.

[Nurz]

Then you would best be served by using Adobe's free DNG converter, which can also process an entire directory in one swell foop.

Note: You can add that DNG Converter as an external program in PL. Just specify an image type of "None", and then you've got that capability a couple of mouse clicks away....

That's fine, though I can't find any use for it inside PL, since it doesn't edit DNG directly.

But that's secondary, really. What baffles me the most is that I can't transfer my files (or open third party files) into PL with the current TIFF/PSD format incompatibility.

Again, I have no problems directly opening one of those EPS files (the 7-Up logo) without even needing to use the GhostScript import.

That's weird, I wonder which prerequisite I'm missing... Do you also open AI?

[ellhel]

Thanks for the tip. I'm adding this as another right-click menu option request!

Hello,

a tip. Maybe it helps you. You can create your own Context-Menu. You can activate it by pressing shift and right-click or by pressing the middle mouse button.

Context Menu.jpg

Regards
Helmut

[Herbert123]

For improved eps import, be sure to copy gsdll32.dll and gsdl64.dll to the HLP folder. Just installing Ghostscript will not have any effect. I can open most EPS files without problems, although I do encounter anti-aliasing issues on a regular basis (lines). I resolve this by rendering a high resolution non-anti-aliased bitmap version, and scaling it down to the required size. This method also gives me full control the down-sampling method, and results in higher quality bitmap versions. (Btw, I found Illustrator's exported bitmaps with save for web to be quite lacking in quality.)

As for PSD support: PL actually offers very good PSD compatibility compared to most other applications. Groups are retained, most layer effects, the most common adjustment layers, ... But obviously it depends on the content and whether specific Photoshop functionality is used. Smart objects, for example, are of course unsupported.
Do not forget that PSD is a proprietary native file format, and should not be considered as an exchange file format.

Layered Tiff files were introduced by Adobe, and circumvent the 'official' Tiff standard. Avoid if you can - support is extremely spotty and confused in applications beyond Adobe. Although the latest version of PL does support the basic layers, Smart objects are again a PS feature, and should not be expected to function anywhere else.

[photoken]

Then you would best be served by using Adobe's free DNG converter, which can also process an entire directory in one swell foop.

Note: You can add that DNG Converter as an external program in PL. Just specify an image type of "None", and then you've got that capability a couple of mouse clicks away....

That's fine, though I can't find any use for it inside PL, since it doesn't edit DNG directly.

??? Not sure what you mean by that. PL can certainly edit DNG images. You then save the edited image as a TIFF, which is what you're trying to do by keeping the original DNG as an archival image.

Again, I have no problems directly opening one of those EPS files (the 7-Up logo) without even needing to use the GhostScript import.

That's weird, I wonder which prerequisite I'm missing... Do you also open AI?

No prerequisites needed, I simply use PL's "Open" dialog which uses PL's internal AI and EPS code. As Herbert123 explained (and as is documented in the Help), if you manually add the GhostScript DLLs into the PL \hlp directory you'll get a new "GS Import" option under File...Import..., which can be used if the normal Open barfs on a particular image.

Yes, I've got a few AI images here that I created with Illustrator and they open just fine in PL.

[photoken]

a tip. Maybe it helps you. You can create your own Context-Menu. You can activate it by pressing shift and right-click or by pressing the middle mouse button.

That's a great tip, thanks! I noticed that Ctrl+RMB shows a context menu for applying a rating and keyword, but I haven't found a way to modify that context menu. (No fancy context menu with Alt+RMB, though.... )