B&W Conversion

[Alan9940]

Hello All,

Trying to duplicate (in PhotoLine) a B&W conversion technique that I recently picked up from a webinar. The presenter was using PS, of course. The 4 basic layers are: Gradient Map, B&W, Selective Color, Color Balance. The last two layers are easy to convert to PL because they're called the same as PS. My questions are:

1. Assuming the B&W layer (PS) would be Gray Mixer (PL), how should I convert these settings to percentages? Red: 30, Yellow: 89, Green: 60, Cyan: 70, Blue: 11, Magenta: 41. I divided each value by 255 to get a percent, but not sure that's correct.

2. I don't see anything in PL called Gradient Map. Hard for me to believe that PL wouldn't have something similar. What am I missing?

Thank you for any insight provided.

Kind regards,
AlanH

[bkh]

1. Assuming the B&W layer (PS) would be Gray Mixer (PL), how should I convert these settings to percentages? Red: 30, Yellow: 89, Green: 60, Cyan: 70, Blue: 11, Magenta: 41. I divided each value by 255 to get a percent, but not sure that's correct.

Not sure how the values translate between PS and PL, but a PL value of 0 means that PL uses the natural brightness of the colour. So having zeroes everywhere is a good starting point. If the effect of the Grey Mixer isn't strong enough, you can use Hue/Saturation instead – turn the global saturation to 0, then adjust the brightness of the individual colour channels. If you need to simulate a b/w filter, this is the way to go.

2. I don't see anything in PL called Gradient Map. Hard for me to believe that PL wouldn't have something similar. What am I missing?

It's called "False Colour" in PL.

Cheers

Burkhard.

[asharpe]

Trying to duplicate (in PhotoLine) a B&W conversion technique that I recently picked up from a webinar. The presenter was using PS, of course. The 4 basic layers are: Gradient Map, B&W, Selective Color, Color Balance.

I would be very interested in the technique; are you at liberty to disclose it?

[Alan9940]

Thanks, Burkhard, for the clarification on the Gray Mixer adjustment layer. After thinking about it for a bit, I did finally realize that 0% probably represented full luminance of the color value. What I was trying to do, based on the hue values in my original post, was to build what I'd call a "neutral" preset. I'll keep playing around with the Gray Mixer until I have a good starting point.

asharpe - I disclosed it in my original post. The four layers are placed above the color original (background) and worked from the top down; which isn't the normal workflow. I use the Gradient Map (top layer) to tone the image, the B&W layer (next layer down) is used to provide a neutral conversion (this can be adjusted to taste, of course), I set the Selective Color layer (next layer down) to wok on neutrals and move the sliders to taste (if you're brave, you can also change the drop-down to work on a specific color and move sliders as needed), the last layer down--Color Balance--is used, basically, to make global changes (again, target colors and adjust to taste.)

I've only recently started playing around with this technique, but so far I'm finding that it provides ultimate control of your grayscale conversion, if that's what you want. It's very interesting how the math works as each layer is recalculated and absolutely amazing the separation obtainable from very similar looking colors. If you're interested, this is the webinar I attended: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW_ODpclMlQ. Since it's posted on YouTube, I don't think it a problem with me posting the link here. I am simply trying to duplicate Scott's technique in PL.

Kind regards,
Alan

[photoken]

I've only recently started playing around with this technique, but so far I'm finding that it provides ultimate control of your grayscale conversion, if that's what you want. It's very interesting how the math works as each layer is recalculated and absolutely amazing the separation obtainable from very similar looking colors.

Hey Alan,
Interesting ideas there, and a big Thank You! to ya for posting a summarization of the adjustment layers used in the technique. (I hate watching video tutorials, and I abandoned that one after about 10 minutes because I was screaming and cursing at the interruptions and irrelevant comments.... )

When you feel confident with this technique, I think it would be a good subject for Experiment 05 if you can find a great 16-bit image out there that we all could bash away at to compare conversion techniques.

For example, I generally use a simple set of adjustments:

Tetons B&W 02 layers & curve.jpg

for my conversions:

Tetons B&W 02.jpg

(The Curves adjustment also has the "a" and "b" channel curves slightly modified to give a bit of a blueish purple toning to the image.)

[Herbert123]

I agree, it is a nice method that is easily extendable with other adjustments, as mentioned by PhotoKen. Thanks for posting.

[Hoogo]

I hate watching video tutorials, and I abandoned that one after about 10 minutes because I was screaming and cursing at the interruptions and irrelevant comments....

I know that feeling, such videos are better when you watch them at increased speed.

[Alan9940]

Interesting ideas there, and a big Thank You! to ya for posting a summarization of the adjustment layers used in the technique. (I hate watching video tutorials, and I abandoned that one after about 10 minutes because I was screaming and cursing at the interruptions and irrelevant comments....

Hey Ken,

Yeah, the continuous patter in those RetouchPRO shows can get annoying! But, if ya drag the slider to the point where Scott starts working on actual images the presentation gets more interesting. Still too much random talk, but it's more easily ignored at that point. One of the aspects that I find most interesting with this technique is the ability to separate similar colors that may otherwise convert to the same gray tone. For example, one of Scott's images looks like the red rock landscape we see out here in the desert southwest; especially in the Sedona, AZ area. The striations of this rock can vary between mid- to dark-red tones against lighter red to pinkish white tones. With other grayscale conversion techniques, I've always found these values to merge together which in most cases is not what I want. Using the adjustment layers I've listed above, I can create contrast between those darker and lighter tones which reveals more texture (at least, perceptually) in the rock!

Another test image I played around with when first approaching this technique was a simple shot of my neighbor's house. Green/yellow grass in the front yard, dark green bushes lining a front wall, tans/browns of a palm trunk, mid-tone brown on the house with creamy tan trim, red tile roof; all in the blazing sun of the desert southwest. First, I converted it to grayscale using various techniques that I've used for years, and then I applied the four adjustment layers above playing around with the sliders. All this was done in PS, though. I printed a few of the trials because the final presentation of most of my work is on paper and the new (to me) technique just screamed light!

I was intrigued enough to continue experimenting with this technique and to see if I could duplicate it in other software such as PL and Affinity Photo. Right now I'm an Adobe Creative Cloud subscriber, but that may not always be the case.

When you feel confident with this technique, I think it would be a good subject for Experiment 05 if you can find a great 16-bit image out there that we all could bash away at to compare conversion techniques.

Great idea! Now that I know a gradient map in PL is False Colors and I have a better understanding of what the Gray Mixer is doing I will continue experimenting in PL. Stay tuned...

Kind regards,
Alan

[Martin Huber]

I have a better understanding of what the Gray Mixer is doing I will continue experimenting in PL.

Instead of the Gray Mixer you could also use the Hue Editor. It offers several color models. You just have to drag the saturation curve to zero. After that you can use the brightness curve to adjust the gray result.

Martin

[Alan9940]

Martin,

Thanks for the suggestion of the Hue Editor. Played around a bit with it today and I really like the idea of having the various color models available as an added option! Will have to play more to see how the Brightness curves interact with the different color models. Very powerful stuff!!

Kind regards,
Alan

[Frank10823]

Hi,

sometimes I use this action to start with a B&W Conversion. I think next I am going to try the hue editor.

Frank