Group, ungroup & selecting individual objects

[Tom Fulery]

In ALL other imaging apps, 'group' and 'ungroup' or selecting objects separately are normal, basic, standard functions that enable editing objects individually. But I cannot find how to do this in Photoline. There seems to be no way to select objects individually or ungrouping them, and there is no mention of grouping or ungrouping or selecting objects separaely in the Help menu or the user manual.

Now, I KNOW there has to be some way to do this. It is a basic function of ALL imaging apps. But I'll be damned if I can figure out how it is done in Photoline.

Can someone plese enlighten me about this? Thankd!

[Hoogo]

It depends a little what you mean with "object".
If it is about pixels, then one layer is one "object". If it is about vectors, it is also that way.
You can select multiple layers in the layer list, and you can group / ungroup them with the context menu there.

But for vectors there's also a different way of view: 3 circles are 3 "objects". They can appear as 3 circles in one layer, or as 3 layers with one circle each. If this is what you mean, then "Layout > vector > split vector layer" and ".. > merge vector layers" are the menu entries you're looking for.

But all vectors / paths in one layer share the same fill and outline!
There's also an option in the vector tools to draw into the active layer. But be careful, that also draws into pixel layers.

[Tom Fulery]

Am I to understand then, that there is NO WAY to select, for example, the letters in a logo separately, so they can be edited individually? That is VERY hard to believe. EVERY OTHER IMAGING APP ENABLES SUCH A BASIC FUNCTION.

If it is true that Photoline is unable to perform this simple, standard function, then it is PRACTICALLY USELESS.

If it cannot perform such a basic function then I regret buying it.

Is there any way to get my money back?

[bkh]

Am I to understand then, that there is NO WAY to select, for example, the letters in a logo separately, so they can be edited individually?

Of course you can. If the letters in the logo form a text layer, you'll have to convert the text to a group of vector layers first (Layer attributes panel, change the layer type from text to vector and choose "single chars" as conversion mode). Keep in mind that PL isn't a pure vector editing app, and therefore there are text layers for editing text on a per-character basis, and vector layers which allow to edit shapes.

In PL, you can group and ungroup layers (in the Layer panel), and there's also the possibility to combine vector objects in one vector layer (Layout -> Vector -> Merge marked vector layers/ Split vector layers), but vector shapes in the same layer have the same line and fill colour.

Cheers

Burkhard.

[Hoogo]

Maybe you can show a youtube video that shows the actions you're looking for?

I can imagine quite a few ways how to edit letters of a logo separately.
Is the logo a typed in text? Then covert the layer into a vector layer and use the vector tools.
Is the logo already a vector? Then just use the vector tools to edit the points.
Is it a bitmap? Then select and separate the letters, or mask each letter one by one.

[Herbert123]

Am I to understand then, that there is NO WAY to select, for example, the letters in a logo separately, so they can be edited individually? That is VERY hard to believe. EVERY OTHER IMAGING APP ENABLES SUCH A BASIC FUNCTION.

If it is true that Photoline is unable to perform this simple, standard function, then it is PRACTICALLY USELESS.

If it cannot perform such a basic function then I regret buying it.

Is there any way to get my money back?

As the others here have posted, it really depends on what you are trying to achieve.

One thing you have to keep in mind, is that the vector object creation tools work in TWO very different modes: either the new object is created as a separate layer, or in the active (selected bitmap/vector) layer.

If you need to edit one vector shape in a vector layer which shares other closed shapes, then you have various methods to accomplish this.
1) switch to the vector point edit tool, and <ALT>-click on a closed path. This will select the entire path. With <SHIFT><ALT> click you can select multiple paths.
2) after selecting these paths, you can split (separate) them from the parent layer. Right-mouse click on the vector object layer, and choose "Split Vector Layer".

Of course, if you ensure you are creating vector objects in individual layers in the first place, this is not necessary. And objects can be easily grouped and ungrouped in a variety of ways: right mouse click the objects or the layers, then select "Group Marked Layers". Or drag individual elements out of the group via the layer panel.

But if I understand you correctly, you wish to create individual vector letter objects for manipulation. Here is how you do it:
1) type your text.
2) open the layer properties panel, and change the layer type to "Vector"
3) in the dialog that appears, change the Option to "Single Chars".

Voila, a grouped word layer with individual letters. Now edit each letter to your heart's content. If you wish to distort the vector layers, apply Effects-->Distort-->choose effect. These are non-destructive as well, and can be edited afterwards again by double-clicking the effect name in the layer panel. And individual distortions may be turned off and on in the same panel as well.

A secondary method is to select each character with the text tool, and adjust them.

If anything, Photoline often offers MORE options for (non-destructive) editing compared to other applications on the market. The workflow can be slightly different, however.

Hope this helps.

[Herbert123]

Btw, grouping and ungrouping commands can be found in the LAYER-->LAYER MANAGEMENT menu. I find this a bit unwieldy in use, and always just right-mouse click a group or group of layers in the view, or in the layer stack. I changed the shortcuts for these two commands for quicker access.

[bkh]

Voila, a grouped word layer with individual letters. Now edit each letter to your heart's content. If you wish to distort the vector layers, apply Effects-->Distort-->choose effect.

Maybe it's worth noting that the Distort effects can be used on text layers as well – while the text remains editable.

Btw, grouping and ungrouping commands can be found in the LAYER-->LAYER MANAGEMENT menu. I find this a bit unwieldy in use, and always just right-mouse click a group or group of layers in the view, or in the layer stack. I changed the shortcuts for these two commands for quicker access.

They are also available via the "sprocket" menu at the lower right corner of the layer panel.

Cheers

Burkhard.

[Herbert123]

True, that.

I wish the original poster (Tom) would explain exactly what he is trying to accomplish. Perhaps he imported an external vector logo, which is a flattened. In that case it can be awkward to work with. But that also holds true for other applications.

[Tom Fulery]

Thanks for all the help, but I need to apply the filter to the individual logo characters as PIXELS, not vectors. I tried the suggestions above, but nothing seems to work. It sounds like PL can only edit the logo characters as vector layers, not pixel selections.

Unless I'm missing something here..

Normally I only use vector apps for layout work. But for this job I need to apply a filter effect to the separate logo characters as pixels. I can do this easily in GIMP, but i wanted to learn how to do it in PL. Apparently, however, PL only edits areas of a pixel image as separate vector layers or masks. While that might ensure nondestructive editing, it can also complicate otherwise simple jobs like this.

It seems very curious that PL does not have a 'selection' menu or even a 'selection' option or tool, which are basic, standard features in every other pixel-based app I've used. Such a departure from standard operations would be OK if it were discussed or explained in the Help menu or user manual, but I can find no mention of it for some reason. This can be quite confusing to users trying to transition from other apps.

I know PL is a full-featured imaging app. There must be a way to select the individual logo characters as PIXELS in order to apply a filter to them.

[photoken]

It seems very curious that PL does not have a 'selection' menu or even a 'selection' option or tool

See this post:
http://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.ph ... ion#p37429

[Hoogo]

I guess you're looking for "lasso", that's the selected tool in the picture. But there's also the automask to the right of it, and more tools hidden beneath them. All filter only apply to the selected area.

But if you can show a tutorial how it is done in Gimp, wen can look for the best tools in PL.

[Tom Fulery]

Again, thanks for the suggestions.

I finally figured out how to do it, and of course it was very obvious once I had figured it out: Convert the text layer to an RGB layer & then use the Automask tool to select each character while holding down the shift key. But when I had tried this before, it didn't work for some reason. Perhaps I was using the wrong layer or something..

The problem was that I could not find out exactly how to do it in the user manual. Photoline is a very powerful program, but the user manual is often unclear about exactly HOW to do certain things. It will describe a certain function, but not necessarily the precise steps to accomplish it. I suppose this has to do with language or syntax issues. However, once you figure out how to do something in PL, it works flawlessly.

I know from experience that every app uses different logic and has its own learning curve, and that one merely has to be persistent. So far, Photoline's learning curve has been relatively easy compared to Photoshop or GIMP, though a few things do take some getting used to.

But the more I use Photoline, the more I appreciate the elegant logic behind it. It also has some very useful filters & effects. I just wish it had more of them. But I guess that's what GIMP is for..

[Herbert123]

But the more I use Photoline, the more I appreciate the elegant logic behind it. It also has some very useful filters & effects. I just wish it had more of them. But I guess that's what GIMP is for..

Take advantage of Photoline's external application link: you can setup an external app link to GIMP, set it to layer, and GIMP becomes a "plugin" in a very nice round-trip workflow. I have done this with many other tools for an almost seamless workflow between applications.

And most standard Photoshop plugins work as well.