Plugin question

[bruce1951]

Not real important but I would like to know the answer just the same!!!

In PL if I have noise in one section of a photo I can do a selection of that area and then open Topaz DeNoise and fix the noise. With PL the entire photo goes to DeNoise and DeNoise does it's thing. All very well. BUT if I do the same thing in PSPx7 only the selection goes to DeNoise. PSP is much faster because it is only working with the selection. (If you look at the PL selection in DeNoise you will see the correction is applied to the entire photo. Where as in PSP it's only applied to the selection).

In PL it seems as though DeNoise is working on the entire photo and then PL discards the non selected area. While PSPx7 only works on the selection.

Any thoughts?

regards

[photoken]

In PSP, are you first "promoting" your selection to a layer (temporary or otherwise)? You can do that in PL by usiing Tool...Lasso...Convert Selection to Layer if you need that.

Plugins handle lassos differently -- for example, the noise reduction filter (DeFine2) and Viveza2 in the Nik Collection only work on the selection, while other filters in that collection work on the entire layer. The KPT Collection only works on the selected area, as do some other filters (like the Redfield plugins)....

[bruce1951]

Ken keep in mind it's the same plugin. So I would assume it works the same in PL and PSP. The issue is how PSP and PL actually handle the selection. PSP is only handling the selection. PL sends the whole image to the plugin then applies the results of the plugin to the selection!

regards

[Herbert123]

True, Photoline sends the entire layer. As a work-around, promote the selection temporarily to a layer, and send it to NIK. When done, merge back with the original layer.

The underlying reason is simple: Photoline's selections (lassos) do not affect pixels directly: in Photoshop, PSP, and other image editors a selection, when transformed, transforms the selected pixels as well. This is not the case in Photoline (anymore - in a very old version it used to behave like most other image editors, but this was changed): a selection WILL NOT EVER work with the pixels in a direct manner. To move selected pixels, the selection must first be promoted to an actual layer, and then that layer may be transformed.

This is the reason why Photoline sends the entire image to a plugin. To prevent this behaviour, you must promote the selection to a layer first.

Most of the time I do not mind this behaviour. It actually motivates the user to work in layers. However, at the same time it can be incredibly frustrating that Photoline's lassos cannot be made to work directly with the pixel content without the need of promoting selections to actual layers. For example, I often have to make small adjustments to pixel graphics for games, mobile GUI elements, and so on. Or perhaps quickly transform an element in a photo (an eye, or so).

In these cases it is terribly cumbersome to be forced into a convoluted workflow that EVERY SINGLE little pixel adjustment requires a new layer to be made first. It really breaks the workflow for this type of work. And this is also the main reason why Photoline is almost unusable for pixel art work (aside from the missing indexed colour mode). Pixel art requires selections/lassos with direct pixel manipulation.

I have asked the developers a number of times to allow us to switch the selection tools to a direct pixel manipulation mode - this is one more example where such a mode would be beneficial. I really REALLY hope the devs will implement a simple switch in the lasso tools to allow for this.

[bruce1951]

Thanks Herert123. That's the information I was looking for. I'm not complaining, no I'm not, not really. Oh ok maybe just a bit. But knowing what PL is doing and why helps to make workflow choices. I think I prefer PSP's way of handling selections simply for the speed. And as you point out you can be more 'selective' with editing.

regards

[photoken]

I think you guys are missing the point: as far as I can tell, if you're using TIF as the interchange format, PL is sending not only the entire layer, but also the layer's mask to the plugin. If the plugin can't deal with the layer mask, then the plugin will ignore the mask and work on the entire layer. If the plugin handles masks, then it will work on the masked area only. This explains the behaviour of the various plugins I mentioned earlier.

(BTW, since you can assign a keyboard shortcut the the Tool...Lasso...Convert Selection to Layer function, that conversion is not an onerous process at all, if you prefer working that way....)

[bruce1951]

Ken I think you are over thinking!!!!!
Simple single layer photo. Use the selection tool to select the sky to address noise issues. Send that selection to Topaz DeNoise. In PSP only the selected sky goes to DeNoise. In PL the entire layer/image goes to DeNoise. No other layers involved. Then PL must take the DeNoise result and only insert the desired section back into the selection.

regards

[photoken]

Use the selection tool to select the sky to address noise issues. Send that selection to Topaz DeNoise.

Point of order: You're not using a "selection tool" in PL. PL makes a very precise distinction between Lasso, Mask and Selection. See this post:
http://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.ph ... =15#p37429

If the plugin doesn't support alpha channels or masks, then when you want the plugin to only work on specific image pixels, you create a selection from your lasso and send that selection to the plugin.

[bruce1951]

Darn terminology!
OK Ken. It has been lost in translation. Using a Lasso in PL and Selection tool in PSP.

Either way. Same action. Same results. Just a different way of getting there.

regards