Brush is not Soft Enough

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shijan
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Brush is not Soft Enough

Post by shijan » Fri 10 Jan 2020 13:31

Not sure if this is another odd limitation in PhotoLine or if i miss something in settings.

Here is the look of very basic round brush with 100% soft edges in most other apps. I usually use for some basic operations.
Image

And here is the softest possible edges i was able to produce with PhotoLine basic Painting brush tool. It seems the edges of single brush sample are soft, but during painting it overlaps samples in very aggressive way and in the end it collapses into rather hard edges. I attempt to adjust all sliders in brush settings, change curve, samples count, but nothing helps:
Image

So it possible somehow produce brush stroke with really soft edges in PhotoLIne?
PhotoLine UI Icons Customization Project: https://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6302

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Gerhard Huber
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Re: Brush is not Soft Enough

Post by Gerhard Huber » Fri 10 Jan 2020 13:47

There are several settings, that affect the softness of a brush.
Beside the standard values "Inner Radius" and "Outer Radius", there are:
- the zoom of your screen shot
- the step size of your brush
- did you draw "manually" or by "Shift"-Drag
Here is a sample screenshot at 100% zoom with step sizes from 5%, 10% and 15%
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shijan
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Re: Brush is not Soft Enough

Post by shijan » Fri 10 Jan 2020 13:58

That is strange...
"Inner Radius" set to 0. I tested on 640x480 and 1920x1080 image. All the same.
I draw manually. Played with step sizes and turn smoothing, on/off, but it all produce near the same look.
shift+drag gives me only 2 dots in the start and in the end, which is also strange. As you can see the dots are nice and soft:

Image
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shijan
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Re: Brush is not Soft Enough

Post by shijan » Fri 10 Jan 2020 14:03

Settings:
ImageImage
Image
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Gerhard Huber
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Re: Brush is not Soft Enough

Post by Gerhard Huber » Fri 10 Jan 2020 14:15

A value of 0 for steps is the worst you can choose.
SoftBrush2.png
Try 15%.
And disable "Smooth".
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shijan
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Re: Brush is not Soft Enough

Post by shijan » Fri 10 Jan 2020 14:36

Gerhard Huber wrote:
Fri 10 Jan 2020 14:15
A value of 0 for steps is the worst you can choose.
SoftBrush2.png
Try 15%.
And disable "Smooth".
It is all the same. Settings produce difference but don't affect softness. just a theory... Maybe it is a problem due too fast CPU or GPU? I am on rather fast overclocked workstation (i7-8700K CPU and Radeon RX 580 GPU). It feels like when i move mouse to 1-2 pixel it generates too huge amount of brush layers(samples) and so they overlap each other more than normal, and so decrease edge softness.
Actually that feels like cool effect for painting, brush feels very fluid and real. But i just need basic soft brush for basic non-painting tasks :)
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Hoogo
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Re: Brush is not Soft Enough

Post by Hoogo » Fri 10 Jan 2020 14:44

Try to increase the value for steps even more.
When you've increased too much, then you should see single dots- But then you're also sure that you got the right slider.
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Martin Huber
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Re: Brush is not Soft Enough

Post by Martin Huber » Fri 10 Jan 2020 15:46

Photoshop doesn't use a linear curve.
Choose one of the standard soft brushes of PhotoLine. They are quite similar in their behavior.
BrushCurve.png
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shijan
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Re: Brush is not Soft Enough

Post by shijan » Fri 10 Jan 2020 15:51

For further tests i install PhotoLine to tiny and old mac mini server machine with core2duo and very basic integrated intel GPU.

On workstation I can increase steps up to max 1000%, set count and weight to 100% and it keep work smooth, but no soft edges.
On mac mini 2 and 15 % makes difference, but i start to see separated dots from 15-20%, and further distance between single dots became more and more visible due low power cpu.

Another strange thing is that on workstation i don't see preview stroke. It looks like single dot:

Workstation:
Image

Mac Mini:
Image
Last edited by shijan on Sat 11 Jan 2020 05:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Martin Huber
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Re: Brush is not Soft Enough

Post by Martin Huber » Fri 10 Jan 2020 16:09

shijan wrote:
Fri 10 Jan 2020 15:51
(...)

Another strange thing is that on workstation i don't see preview stroke. It looks like single dot:(...)
Open the preferences. In "Working > Brush" you have turned off "Connect Brush Positions". Turn it on again.
After that, use one of the standard brushes which have a step size of 10%.They should be fine.

Martin

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shijan
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Re: Brush is not Soft Enough

Post by shijan » Fri 10 Jan 2020 16:11

Seems i find a problem core - "Conenct Brush Positions" was unchecked in program settings. I have no idea what is the purpose of that setting, but probably i uncheck it by accident.

Now i see stroke, and edges are soft as expected.
Image

P.S. I need to be Turn on, and PhotoLine should be restarted to changes take effect.
PhotoLine UI Icons Customization Project: https://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6302

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Re: Brush is not Soft Enough

Post by Martin Huber » Fri 10 Jan 2020 16:26

shijan wrote:
Fri 10 Jan 2020 16:11
P.S. I need to be Turn on, and PhotoLine should be restarted to changes take effect.
You shouldn't have to restart PhotoLine. I didn't have to in my tests.

Martin

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shijan
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Re: Brush is not Soft Enough

Post by shijan » Fri 10 Jan 2020 17:05

Ok. Brush works, but amount of softness it still feels slightly limited. Or probably it is just because adjustment is not too intuitive and controls are in multiple tabs and places.
- Stroke preview located in separate tab of stroke samples adjust slider.
- Samples adjust slider (or whatever name of that that tool) have range from 1 to 1000% but usable range only somewhere 1 to 12%

P.S. on screen size and softness adjust with command(shift)+mouse drag is very useful tool, but it could be better if inner size have hard end in the center. Currently after decrease it continues increase to opposite way. This makes impossible to set inner size to 0 with command+shift+mouse drag.
P.S. change size with up and down keys partially fixes this problem
Last edited by shijan on Sat 11 Jan 2020 07:47, edited 4 times in total.
PhotoLine UI Icons Customization Project: https://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6302

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shijan
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Re: Brush is not Soft Enough

Post by shijan » Sat 11 Jan 2020 04:26

Just checked Photoshop brush settings and it also use brush samples adjust slider range from 1 to 1000% with only usable range 1 to 25% :)
Less problems with usability if tabs arranged like this:
Image
PhotoLine UI Icons Customization Project: https://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6302