CMYK Perceptual on macOS greys get violet tint

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ono
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CMYK Perceptual on macOS greys get violet tint

Post by ono » Wed 26 Feb 2020 21:03

I am trying to process some CMYK drawings, and I found something completely odd I cannot explain happening here on macOS Catalina 10.15.3 running PL 21.90b10. If I create a new A4 document with CMYK color space and light grey background I get this light violet tint. It also tints the area outside of the document, which is even weirder. (see the screenshot)
PL2190b10-CMYK-Gray-Bg.jpg
If I open any existing CMYK document all greys become tinted with violet, this happens for all rendering intents except Absolute Colorimetric, where image become tinted with yellow instead.

E.g. this should be normal grey background but it is tinted:
PL2190b10-CMYK-Doc-Grays.jpg
If I enable [X] Use Little CMS, everything becomes normal, which means I get grey greys.
PL2190b10-CMYK-Gray-Bg-LittleCMS.jpg

Any idea what cause PL's own CMS to introduce this tint? Or maybe it has something to do with macOS? I use my own monitor color profile, but selecting any other color profile does absolutely nothing. Shall I test Windows version and see if this behaves the same?

Regards,
-- Adam
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Adam Strzelecki | nanoant.com | CBCT/PET tomography engineer

Martin Huber
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Re: CMYK Perceptual on macOS greys get violet tint

Post by Martin Huber » Thu 27 Feb 2020 10:52

ono wrote:
Wed 26 Feb 2020 21:03
Any idea what cause PL's own CMS to introduce this tint?
PhotoLine has no own color management. If LittleCMS is not activated the color management of the operating system is used, under macOS ColorSync.
ono wrote:
Wed 26 Feb 2020 21:03
Or maybe it has something to do with macOS? I use my own monitor color profile, but selecting any other color profile does absolutely nothing. Shall I test Windows version and see if this behaves the same?
Did you by chance activate Black Point Compensation? It seems to cause that color tint.

Martin

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ono
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Re: CMYK Perceptual on macOS greys get violet tint

Post by ono » Thu 27 Feb 2020 20:58

Martin Huber wrote:
Thu 27 Feb 2020 10:52
ono wrote:
Wed 26 Feb 2020 21:03
Or maybe it has something to do with macOS? I use my own monitor color profile, but selecting any other color profile does absolutely nothing. Shall I test Windows version and see if this behaves the same?
Did you by chance activate Black Point Compensation? It seems to cause that color tint.
Yes, I confirm Use Blackpoint Compensation was checked on my computer (probably enabled by default). Turning it off removed the tint, and greys are grey. Thanks!
Question - is it a bug in macOS? If so, should we report it via Feedback Assistant?
Adam Strzelecki | nanoant.com | CBCT/PET tomography engineer

Martin Huber
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Re: CMYK Perceptual on macOS greys get violet tint

Post by Martin Huber » Thu 27 Feb 2020 22:41

ono wrote:
Thu 27 Feb 2020 20:58
Question - is it a bug in macOS? If so, should we report it via Feedback Assistant?
IMO that's an error in macOS. I've reported it today.

Martin

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shijan
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Re: CMYK Perceptual on macOS greys get violet tint

Post by shijan » Fri 28 Feb 2020 02:43

By the way, if your CMYK ICC profile is LUT based it may be also related to ICC profile type problem described here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6297&start=75#p46862
"There is a color shift when i assign cLUT or XYZ based Input ICC profiles to image. When i convert it to Matrix Based working ICC profile, gray background is back to normal state.
If i assign different Matrix Based input and working ICC profiles it don't affect background.
PhotoLine UI Icons Customization Project: https://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6302

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Re: CMYK Perceptual on macOS greys get violet tint

Post by shijan » Fri 28 Feb 2020 21:00

So seems to avoid this problem "Blackpoint Compensation" now always disabled in final version 22.00.
PhotoLine UI Icons Customization Project: https://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6302

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ono
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Re: CMYK Perceptual on macOS greys get violet tint

Post by ono » Sun 01 Mar 2020 21:14

shijan wrote:
Fri 28 Feb 2020 21:00
So seems to avoid this problem "Blackpoint Compensation" now always disabled in final version 22.00.
Yup. It is greyed out however it is checked. I am bit confused, I was suppose to uncheck it to get rid of tinting problem.
Is it supposed to be checked now in v22, does it mean that macOS system CMS always does blackpoint compensation?
PL_2200_BlackPointCompensationDisabled.png
Martin Huber wrote:
Thu 27 Feb 2020 22:41
IMO that's an error in macOS. I've reported it today.
Thanks Martin.
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Re: CMYK Perceptual on macOS greys get violet tint

Post by shijan » Sun 01 Mar 2020 21:39

mine is disabled but unchecked. strange...
Image
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Re: CMYK Perceptual on macOS greys get violet tint

Post by mwenz » Sun 01 Mar 2020 22:23

If you enable LCMS, the black point is able to be toggled.

I would imagine it isn't used if LCMS itself isn't enabled...that's what I would expect in a UI if something that was enabled/disabled had such a choice anyway.

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Re: CMYK Perceptual on macOS greys get violet tint

Post by Martin Huber » Mon 02 Mar 2020 16:24

ono wrote:
Sun 01 Mar 2020 21:14
shijan wrote:
Fri 28 Feb 2020 21:00
So seems to avoid this problem "Blackpoint Compensation" now always disabled in final version 22.00.
Yup. It is greyed out however it is checked. I am bit confused, I was suppose to uncheck it to get rid of tinting problem.
Is it supposed to be checked now in v22, does it mean that macOS system CMS always does blackpoint compensation?
If it is disabled, its value isn't used. Despite it beeing checked, you shouldn't see the tint.

I will change the behavior so that it isn't checked when it isn't used.

Martin

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ono
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Re: CMYK Perceptual on macOS greys get violet tint

Post by ono » Mon 02 Mar 2020 22:17

Martin Huber wrote:
Mon 02 Mar 2020 16:24
I will change the behavior so that it isn't checked when it isn't used.
Perfect. Thanks!
Adam Strzelecki | nanoant.com | CBCT/PET tomography engineer