Can I make adjustments independently in different colour spaces in curves without creating duplicate adjustments

[Vivi_Ram]

I'd like to ask a quick question. When I'm switching between the colour spaces within curves, RGB Vs HSV Vs Lab, the curve remains, but adjustment itself is altered for the chosen colour space.

What I'd like to be able to do: Make changes to Lightness in Lab, come back to a straight curved RGB, and make my changes independently. Is this possible? Really what I'm asking for is to stack curves adjustments without the need to create an extra curve adjustments. If this isn't possible, could I request it? It's A LOT more intuitive if you think about it.

I can make a video later to demo what I'm asking for if you need.

[Vivi_Ram]

Come to think of it, I'm surprised no one's considered this as a possibility barring one applictation (PS-Studio). It would really make curves adjustment that much more powerful. But unfortunately, it's a destructive action there. So it does not help.

[PPaul]

Perhaps you can put the adjustment outside/on top of the image? I think changing the colour space of the image will not affect the colour space of the adjustment?
- Paul

[Hoogo]

You can do that with "view > Panels > Adjustment layer"
- Create an adjustmet layer for the first curve
- And in that adjustment dialog, there's that little button to add more adjustments.
EDIT: That's 2 adjustments in 1 layer... I think only 1 adjustment for all spaces won't tell about the order of adjustments.

Adjustments.jpg

[Vivi_Ram]

Yup. Got it. That's what I was looking for. Except that having multiple windows open isn't what I'm looking for. There's got to be a simpler solution, without duplicates. I'm working on a series of tutorials from Dan Margulis, which is really opening my eyes to editing in CMYK and Lab and it's astonishing power. And I'm finally falling in love with curves.

[shijan]

Formally this could be designed in same way as current Spline, Bezier and other modes toggle:
Shift+menu click changes mode for all curves. Menu click changes mode for single curve only.

But i think it is a bad idea and it will confuse user. It will be very complex to understand which color mode is used by curves. Everything became "too hidden" and so user need to click to every curves mode (RGB, Lab, HIS...) and every Curve to understand which color mode is used for which curve. Also there is a limitation - fixed order of the curves.

Current logic is simple - One color mode for all and you always see it. Why is it a problem for you to add second Curves layer?

[Vivi_Ram]

It only sounds complicated. I see your point about things getting hidden. But the trade off is between duplicate adjustments Vs slightly increased hidden-ness. If you have access to Paintstorm, check it out. It's actually a lot simpler than it sounds in my explanation here. But in PS Studio, it's destructive. Once you hit apply, it's done. Because it's a painting app.

I personally prefer a very tight layer stack and don't like duplicates.

This is especially true since PL lacks layer linking. Virtual copies aren't the same. Related. Not same. In other programs, virtual copies are either called clones, symbols or repeating objects.

It could at least be an option. Rather than default behaviour.

[Herbert123]

I tend to agree with @shijan over this.

And in my opinion using multiple curve adjustment layers actually is a quicker and more efficient workflow: click (via the adjustments panel) or double-click (modal dialog) to access the curve with direct access to the curve move.

While the layer stack might be simpler, accessing the curve moves in that one adjustment layer is somewhat tedious, because we are forced to use that dropdown menu - which is 3 actions: click, mouse move, click.

I work on quite complex comps in PhotoLine with hundreds of layers and adjustment layers. I have yet to lose my way. But hiding multiple curve moves as you @Vivi_ram propose: it hides stuff too much. It doesn't expose the settings properly and more clicks are involved. If we want to simplify the root layer stack display, I'd say just use the Adjustments panel to combine multiple curve moves in one layer or simply group the adjustment layers (which I actually prefer, because double-clicking to display the modal window gives us the option to compare the changes against the original version, which is absolutely essential to have since our brain will almost immediately adjust to those changes).

It would mean a redesign of the current curves adjustment dialogs.

PS in regard to Dan Margulis' books: some of his techniques are a little outdated due to Photoshop's Curves and image mode limitations. For example, no HIS or HSV workflows there And he focuses on print for the most part.

That said, still valid and very useful books, and I went through all his books 20-15 years ago. Learned a lot.

But to be honest, nowadays I spend more time in HIS/HSV curves than in LAB curves. Those are much more intuitive and quicker for most correction jobs.

[Herbert123]

This is especially true since PL lacks layer linking. Virtual copies aren't the same. Related. Not same. In other programs, virtual copies are either called clones, symbols or repeating objects.

AAARGHHH!!! Why did you have to mention layer linking!

One of the few remaining pet peeves of mine that I SORELY miss in PhotoLine. I have requested layer linking since forever and for some reason the devs are unwilling to implement this absolutely essential feature when dealing with complex layer stacks and comps.

Perhaps if we all ask for layer linking as a group, the Hubers might implement this?

One can hope...

[Vivi_Ram]

I tend to agree with @shijan over this.

And in my opinion using multiple curve adjustment layers actually is a quicker and more efficient workflow: click (via the adjustments panel) or double-click (modal dialog) to access the curve with direct access to the curve move.

While the layer stack might be simpler, accessing the curve moves in that one adjustment layer is somewhat tedious, because we are forced to use that dropdown menu - which is 3 actions: click, mouse move, click.

I work on quite complex comps in PhotoLine with hundreds of layers and adjustment layers. I have yet to lose my way. But hiding multiple curve moves as you @Vivi_ram propose: it hides stuff too much. It doesn't expose the settings properly and more clicks are involved. If we want to simplify the root layer stack display, I'd say just use the Adjustments panel to combine multiple curve moves in one layer or simply group the adjustment layers (which I actually prefer, because double-clicking to display the modal window gives us the option to compare the changes against the original version, which is absolutely essential to have since our brain will almost immediately adjust to those changes).

It would mean a redesign of the current curves adjustment dialogs.

PS in regard to Dan Margulis' books: some of his techniques are a little outdated due to Photoshop's Curves and image mode limitations. For example, no HIS or HSV workflows there And he focuses on print for the most part.

That said, still valid and very useful books, and I went through all his books 20-15 years ago. Learned a lot.

But to be honest, nowadays I spend more time in HIS/HSV curves than in LAB curves. Those are much more intuitive and quicker for most correction jobs.

Let me try your suggestion and get back to you.

But would you be amenable to a toggle that enables this?

Dan Margulis' workflows are indeed outdated. But his philosophy on colour correction are absolutely sound. His book, Make Ready, is actually a sapphire in the mud. And also, yes, I work with print mostly. Magazines. I'm a copywriter first.

[Vivi_Ram]

This is especially true since PL lacks layer linking. Virtual copies aren't the same. Related. Not same. In other programs, virtual copies are either called clones, symbols or repeating objects.

AAARGHHH!!! Why did you have to mention layer linking!

One of the few remaining pet peeves of mine that I SORELY miss in PhotoLine. I have requested layer linking since forever and for some reason the devs are unwilling to implement this absolutely essential feature when dealing with complex layer stacks and comps.

Perhaps if we all ask for layer linking as a group, the Hubers might implement this?

One can hope...

I absolutely agree. Linking is an essential, must-have feature. BUT please don't do it like Adobe did! It's practically useless and breaks down beyond the simplest possibilities. Please, please, look up Affinity Layer Linking. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A0c1XYCZk ... Vycw%3D%3D

[shijan]

look up Affinity Layer Linking. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A0c1XYCZk ... Vycw%3D%3D

Some tricks from that video possible in PhotoLine. For example instead of "Duplicate Linked" you can just create virtual copy of Adjustment Layer and place it inside any other layer.

[Vivi_Ram]

look up Affinity Layer Linking. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A0c1XYCZk ... Vycw%3D%3D

Some tricks from that video possible in PhotoLine. For example instead of "Duplicate Linked" you can just create virtual copy of Adjustment Layer and place it inside any other layer.

Yes, you're right. But you cannot delink attributes. Which is important. As you don't want to always affect all attributes. Consider masks. You may want to delink pixel content, and yet retain transformations linked. Changes to the content of the mask are delinked, but the transformations are, and vice versa. In PS, all attributes barring transformations are delinked if I remember correctly - need to check this. Long time since I used.

Also, remember that linking is not the same as duplication. You can link layers that are not duplicates of each other. You can link the attributes of different types of layers. Such as vectors, images, adjustments and masks. This goes beyond what's possible in both PL and PS.